2007-01-09 GnuCash IRC logs

00:06:16 *** jpeach has joined #gnucash
00:06:24 *** jpeach has left #gnucash
00:13:00 *** benoitg has joined #gnucash
00:14:53 <mishehu> oh don't tell me that g-wrap tries to link to glib v1.x...
00:15:22 <mishehu> it's searching for glib-conf, which does not appear in recent glib v2.x...
00:28:52 *** benoitg has left #gnucash
00:33:17 *** benoitg has joined #gnucash
00:33:17 *** gncbot sets mode: +o benoitg
01:13:47 <mishehu> ugh.
01:14:14 <mishehu> /opt/gnome-2.16.2/share/gnucash/scm/hooks.scm:22:3: In procedure gnc:hook-run-danglers-real in expression (gnc:hook-run-danglers-real hook args):
01:14:29 <mishehu> /opt/gnome-2.16.2/share/gnucash/scm/hooks.scm:22:3: Wrong type argument in position 2: #f
01:14:44 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
01:14:51 <warlord> mishehu: You've got guile 1.6.x?
01:15:21 <mishehu> warlord: I asked about that earlier, nobody responded. the guy who wrote a few lines about teh install in slackware-like systems said he installed 1.6.8. I have 1.8.1.
01:15:42 <mishehu> if it's incompatible with 1.8.x, I'll install 1.6.8 in parallel.
01:17:10 <mishehu> just give the word and I'll do it. in the meantime, must sleep.
01:17:14 <warlord> mishehu: I dont know. FC6, which has guile 1.8.x, works fine. But for some reason other people who compile guile 1.8.x seem to have this problem with guile + g-wrap.
01:17:20 <warlord> Which version of g-wrap, by the way>
01:17:29 <mishehu> g-wrap 1.9.7
01:17:42 <mishehu> couldn't get 1.3.4 to build.
01:17:53 <warlord> 1.9.7? Not 1.9.6?
01:18:07 <mishehu> that one choked on build as well.
01:18:39 <mishehu> it was some scheme related thing, and as I don't know scheme I went back to trying 1.9.7
01:18:56 <mishehu> I'll try guile 1.6.8 in parallel tomorrow.
01:19:04 <warlord> I wouldn't even try "in parallel".
01:19:30 * mishehu must sleep...
01:19:33 <warlord> I'd remove your current guile/gnucash/g-wrap/slib, and then install guile 1.6.x, slib 3a3, g-wrap (1.9.6 or 1.3.4), and then gnucash
01:19:52 <mishehu> alright.
01:19:57 <mishehu> that'll be for tomorrow. heh.
01:24:44 <warlord> And if you were running any other Distro, you'd be done by now ;)
01:40:41 *** benoitg has left #gnucash
01:43:53 *** bistra has joined #gnucash
01:44:09 <bistra> Morning All!!!!
01:44:54 <bistra> Can anyone tell me how to change the reporting year from January/December to July/June????
01:47:07 <MacGyver> yeah, right click on your clock
01:47:21 <warlord> bistra: In the report options you can set the start/end dates.
01:47:51 <bistra> Tks Warlord, nice to talk to you again!!
01:48:01 <MacGyver> oops, wrong channel
01:48:11 <MacGyver> thought i was in ##java :-p
01:48:12 <bistra> Tks McGyver :)))))
01:48:23 <MacGyver> bistra: anytime ;)
01:49:48 <warlord> heh.
01:49:55 <warlord> anyways, bedtime for me. Good night.
01:50:02 *** warlord is now known as warlord-afk
01:50:10 <bistra> G'night Warlord Tks again
01:57:40 *** |gunni| has quit IRC
02:03:24 <bistra> anyone around????
02:03:59 <bistra> OK g'nitr all!!!
02:04:08 *** bistra has quit IRC
02:04:21 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
02:17:10 *** ErKa has quit IRC
02:20:34 *** bistra has joined #gnucash
02:21:13 *** bistra has quit IRC
03:24:35 *** rauch|sleep is now known as rauch
03:25:02 *** jpeach has joined #gnucash
03:46:41 *** RallyU has joined #gnucash
03:50:24 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
03:51:25 *** RallyU has left #gnucash
04:30:49 *** simone has joined #gnucash
04:31:19 *** simone has left #gnucash
07:40:45 *** jpeach has left #gnucash
08:05:44 *** twunder has joined #gnucash
08:08:36 *** Rolf has joined #gnucash
08:46:38 <jsled> @tell mishehu g-wrap-1.9.6 at least needs to be patched to look for glib2 rather than glib-1.x, as per <http://www.zugaina.org/gentoo/ecatmurs/portage/dev-libs/g-wrap/files/g-wrap-glib-problem-fix.patch>.
08:46:38 <gncbot> jsled: The operation succeeded.
09:00:56 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
09:12:10 <warlord> good morning, all.
09:20:58 <jsled> morning.
09:37:18 *** wizkid238_ has joined #gnucash
09:40:00 *** rapha has joined #gnucash
09:45:35 *** wizkid238 has quit IRC
09:48:33 <rapha> Hi all!
09:49:03 <rapha> I want to use GnuCash and have a question about shares (of a company)
09:49:28 <rapha> How do you enter them? I have for example 12 shares of Deutsche Lufthansa, but their value is changing every day
09:49:47 <jsled> rapha: you'll want to read the tutorial and concepts guide, which covers this.
09:49:49 <rapha> So I can't enter a value, but there doesn't seem the be a place to enter their value
09:49:53 <rapha> Ah okay
09:49:55 <rapha> Sorry then
09:49:58 * rapha reads
09:50:40 <rapha> Just to say this, I did fine until now with Cash and Accounts and stuff without looking at any guides... so kudos to you guys for the user interface!
09:50:47 <jsled> :)
09:51:59 <rapha> Heh, just a minor problem with that UI (oops :) ) ... when I click "GnuCash Kurs und Konzepte" or "Inhalt" (under the Help menu), nothing happens :(
09:52:17 <jsled> rapha: what distro?
09:52:26 <rapha> Ubuntu Edgy
09:52:30 <jsled> you might need a seperate "gnucash-docs" package to be installed.
09:52:41 * rapha looks
09:52:58 <jsled> In the mean time, http://svn.gnucash.org/docs/guide/ is a web-based copy.
09:53:05 <rapha> Stupid... they should make the docs part of the package.
09:53:10 <rapha> Well
09:53:24 <rapha> They have made it a dependancy obviously... docs are installed alright.
09:53:50 <jsled> Hmm. Actaully, you're running gnucash-2.x, right?
09:53:52 <rapha> Maybe I should compile it myself.
09:53:55 <rapha> 2.0.1, yup
09:54:30 <jsled> I do not recommend to build it yourself, especially as it's already packaged.
09:55:06 <jsled> rapha: it'd be good to know what's printed on the console when it doens't work from the menu; could be a bug...
09:55:11 <rapha> Would be no problem... I've quite a bit more experience with building software than with doing accounting stuff :)
09:56:07 <rapha> Ouch. No gtkmozembed.
09:56:13 * rapha installs
09:56:40 <jsled> huh. that does sound like a packaging bug, unless you've been bypassing the packaging system there. :)
09:58:03 <rapha> Nope, I haven't... those LFS days are over for me.
09:58:35 <warlord> rapha: The short answer to your question: set it up as a Stock account. (I don't know the german translation)
09:58:45 <rapha> (Done it for Ruby since Ubuntu's 1.8.4 is compiled with GCC's O2 which in turn triggers a nasty bug... but that won't affect GnuStep)
09:59:07 <jsled> s/Step/Cash/?
09:59:59 <mishehu> so I'm not the only masochist in here?
09:59:59 <gncbot> mishehu: Sent 1 hour and 13 minutes ago: <jsled> g-wrap-1.9.6 at least needs to be patched to look for glib2 rather than glib-1.x, as per <http://www.zugaina.org/gentoo/ecatmurs/portage/dev-libs/g-wrap/files/g-wrap-glib-problem-fix.patch>.
10:00:02 <rapha> warlord: Aktienkonto. I am using the accounts supplied with GnuCash... my guess is I that I don't understand how GnuCash calculates the amount of what your stocks are worth by hand of the stock course
10:00:09 <rapha> jsled: yes, sry
10:00:21 <mishehu> I hope that patch works, it only changes a line or two in the configure script.
10:00:35 <jsled> mishehu: it does, and it does.
10:00:58 <jsled> mishehu: And, no, as he said: his LFS days are over. And it might even be the case that slack is worse than LFS. ;p
10:01:10 <elb> it is
10:01:12 <rapha> Wierd. No chance to get gtkmozembed installed under Ubuntu, it's in none of their repositories. I'll file a bug.
10:01:14 <elb> at least with lfs you know what's there
10:01:29 <rapha> jsled: Why, of course it it! :)
10:01:42 <rapha> Although the wierdest distro I've tried to day must be GoboLinux.
10:02:04 <jsled> rapha: I was just looking at that the other day. Weird, but strangely logical.
10:02:27 <rapha> jsled: it is indeed. They have some nice concepts in there and if I still had the time, I'd give it a spin again.
10:02:44 <jsled> Similar to an application being a transiently-mounted virtual file system ... odd, but strangely compelling.
10:02:51 <rapha> jsled: It's also freaking fast, no idea why. Or at least, their early versions were.
10:03:01 <jsled> Yeah, I really need to get some qemu or vmware spaces to try out things like that.
10:03:57 <warlord> rapha: Well, when you create the new Aktienkonto it should require you to set the commodity.
10:04:00 <elb> the claim that you don't need a package manager is clearly ignorant
10:04:05 <rapha> jsled: just to clarify, GnuCash does need gtkmozembed, right? So unless I get that installed or compile Mozilla from sources, too, recompiling GnuCash won't help a bit?
10:04:29 <warlord> rapha: no, gnucash does NOT need gtkmozembed
10:04:32 <jsled> rapha: gnucash does not need gtkmozembed, but yelp does, I think.
10:04:48 <rapha> elb: GoboLinux works quite well without one, if you stick to their standards. Kinda like a Ruby on Rails of Linux distros
10:04:56 <rapha> Ah kay, then I'll recompile.
10:05:20 <jsled> gnucash uses gtkhtml
10:05:32 <jsled> rapha: you'll recompile... yelp, I take it?
10:05:52 <rapha> Oh
10:05:55 <elb> rapha: as long as you never *remove* packages ... if you remove a library, you can still break dependencies, even though you removed it "cleanly"
10:06:00 <rapha> So GnuCash uses Yelp for displaying its docs?
10:06:50 <rapha> warlord: commodity, is that the number of stocks I have or the value (in $$/EE) to which they amount?
10:07:40 <rapha> elb: true, that even goes for GoboLinux. Iirr tho, they say that at the current point the users for which their system is intended can and want to handle that themselves.
10:07:41 <jsled> yeah, and it's yelp that should use gtkmozembed; but, again, the packages for that should already be setup.
10:08:25 <rapha> And they are. And Yelp loads. Just when I click the Guide menu item in GnuCash, it complains about missing gtkmozembed.
10:08:32 <warlord> rapha: neither. the commodity is the "stock" defintion.. The name of the stock.
10:08:44 <elb> rapha: they can claim that, I guess ...
10:08:48 <rapha> warlord: Oh okay, like MSFT for Microsoft?
10:09:12 <warlord> The Stock Account would contain the quantity of stock you hold. The PriceDB maintains the current price which gnucash uses to compute the current value.
10:09:15 <warlord> Yeah!
10:09:33 <rapha> elb: Well, whatever :-) ... I just wanted to evaluate on jsled's point that it's a nice system somehow, even tho it's also kinda wierd.
10:09:51 <rapha> Aaah okay
10:10:15 <rapha> PriceDB is what is called Werkzeuge (Tools) > Aktien (Stocks) in the menu where I had to enter the stock symbols and stuff?
10:10:25 <warlord> You cannot create a Stock account without setting the commodity.
10:10:42 <warlord> And then when you open the stock account you can edit the #shares, the price, and the value
10:10:58 <rapha> k
10:11:05 <rapha> then I think I might know what went wrong
10:11:07 * rapha tries
10:12:41 <rapha> Hmm
10:12:42 <rapha> nope
10:13:12 <rapha> warlord: I created a new account under "Stock Depot" and gave it an initial value of '12', but it changed that to 12 euros :(
10:14:18 <rapha> There's the prob
10:14:28 <warlord> Are you sure you set the proper account type?
10:15:09 <rapha> The New Account dialog has a selection list "Account Type". It's set to "Aktiva" by default, which I didn't expect. Since it is a sub-account to "Stock Depot" I expected it to automatically be of type "Stock"
10:16:04 <rapha> Now its created it properly
10:16:29 <rapha> (And I gather it you can't have an initial value for stocks?)
10:21:03 *** warlord2 has joined #gnucash
10:21:04 *** gncbot sets mode: +o warlord2
10:21:05 <elb> you cna manually enter a price
10:22:26 <rapha> Yes, I did. It's working now :)
10:23:01 <warlord2> Good.
10:23:07 <warlord2> @op
10:23:07 *** gncbot sets mode: +o warlord2
10:23:35 <rapha> I'm just not sure if I should let GnuCash ... dunno how to say it in English ... let it "book" the stocks with the "Initial Amount" account like it does for my money account
10:24:11 <warlord2> That's up to you.
10:24:40 *** warlord has quit IRC
10:25:12 <rapha> Oh, okay.
10:25:28 <rapha> Never thought this hole finance stuff could be that interesting :)
10:29:34 *** roe has joined #gnucash
10:30:36 <roe> I'm investigating using GnuCash for our small business, I was wondering if anyone else is doing so and if so what their experiences are
10:30:49 *** warlord2 is now known as warlord
10:30:55 <warlord> lots of people do.
10:33:01 <roe> successfully? We tried using sql ledger but the interace was too sluggish and for us non-accounting types the flow/terminology was lost on us
10:37:30 <warlord> roe: You can ask on gnucash-user
10:37:46 <rapha> roe: I've just started using GnuCash (will use it for the household and my one-person-business) and I must say it's very easy to understand even if you've never dealt with finance stuff before.
10:38:17 <roe> warlord: sorry, didn't realize this wasn't the user forum
10:38:26 <warlord> roe: I meant the mailing list
10:38:35 <roe> ah
10:43:20 <jsled> roe: or, search the list archives for a similar query; I think this came up on -user not too long ago ... sometime in the last year, maybe.
10:43:36 <roe> ok, will do, thank you
10:44:18 <rapha> WOW! COOL! There's even automatic recurring payments!
10:45:45 <warlord> That's been there since 1.8
10:48:13 <rapha> Well yes, but I only started using it now :)
10:48:44 <rapha> Also how detailed you guys made everything
10:48:54 <rapha> And how many premade accounts there are
10:49:36 <rapha> I mean, this thing seems to be able to handle about most everybody's finances better than themselves.
10:50:15 <rapha> And I was wondering all the time how I should organize everyhing... you got it all in there, all in a premade structure :)
10:52:03 <warlord> rapha: That WAS the point! :)
11:05:10 <rapha> :-)
11:06:39 <rapha> Budgets... does that mean I can say I give myself a budget of, say, 30 EUR a week for food and stuff?
11:08:40 <chris> rapha: right, but be careful. If you spend your 30 EUR too early, GnuCash will actually prevent you from purchasing any more food. You could starve.
11:09:10 <warlord> heh
11:09:12 <rapha> Oh
11:09:30 <rapha> But it can make coffee, right, so that won't be a problem?
11:09:40 <warlord> And do your dishes..
11:09:45 <warlord> (with the included kitchen sink)
11:09:56 *** cstim has joined #gnucash
11:09:57 *** gncbot sets mode: +o cstim
11:10:24 <rapha> My flat-mates do the dishes, I'll liberally relieve GnuCash of that task.
11:10:52 <cstim> you have a flat-rate for the dishes?
11:12:43 <warlord> Heh.
11:14:39 *** roe has left #gnucash
11:18:02 <rapha> lol
11:18:38 <rapha> Hmm the automatic thingy tells me it'll need a template, but doesn't let you enter anything but the description into the template
11:19:04 <rapha> Nm
11:23:34 *** ErKa has quit IRC
11:23:53 <rapha> Oops
11:23:57 <rapha> Now I crashed it
11:24:25 <rapha> :(
11:41:09 <jsled> :( rapha, when did it crash?
11:41:23 <jsled> you should be able to either tab or click on the template register as like any other.
11:48:00 <chris> rapha: did you close a regular register while the template editor was open?
11:56:41 *** cstim has quit IRC
13:10:20 *** esodan has joined #gnucash
13:18:24 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
13:18:30 <esodan> Happy new year for every body!
13:18:46 <jsled> happy new year esodan
13:19:13 <warlord> hiya esodan
13:20:01 <esodan> Thaks to all... :)
13:20:57 <esodan> Have you time to talk about some issues about GObject in the GC's core? or is too early this year :-P
13:21:48 <warlord> Heheh
13:22:44 <warlord> I think migrating to GObject would be a Good Thing (TM)
13:23:49 <esodan> well I have been thinking about this issue and found very convenient to have GObject directly in the core... I think we agree about this right?
13:25:01 <jsled> yup.
13:25:04 <warlord> Yeah
13:27:27 <esodan> Ok...!
13:29:05 <esodan> Then, do we want GC have *just* support for Databases engines like SQLite, PostgreSQL, MySQL, and others?
13:29:43 <jsled> esodan: what do you mean?
13:30:58 <jsled> esodan: As opposed to an xml or other backend?
13:32:05 <esodan> well today we have been using a XML file and a PostgreSQL backends, and if we want an other we need to implement that backend using the actual infrastructure QOF...
13:32:24 <warlord> (on phone)
13:32:37 <jsled> that's right.
13:33:04 <esodan> This will take some time to be implemented...
13:34:22 <esodan> the actual QofQuery it's so limited in the way to create powerfull queries like: select specific fields, add subqueries and so...
13:35:08 <esodan> I have the following idea:...
13:36:54 <esodan> "Allow other programs to access to the GC's data (financial data) using an API (not an instance)"...
13:39:07 <esodan> If we write the core to take data from a database server then a program can access financial data managed by the server but using only one API...
13:41:38 <esodan> what I mean? May we can allow a program to get a "table" (a GdaDataModel) representing some specific data from a specific account, then this program can create custome analisys or use some other powerfull tools like in a spreadsheet (thing in Gnumeric that can use GDA)
13:43:13 <jsled> you're saying, in effect: make the engine API itself a relational model.
13:43:26 <jsled> The only API to gnucash is through tables/views/sql.
13:44:08 <esodan> For the moment I can't list the functionality in the API before to study the actual core... but I can say that some common operations like: "save this transaction", "get transactions from this account", "get average from this accounts", and soe could be usefull for an external tool.
13:45:08 <jsled> true.
13:45:21 <jsled> the swig bindings are part of that. the reports are part of that.
13:45:53 <jsled> but it's impossible to say something like `gnucash --get-account-balance=Assets:Checking $file` right now.
13:46:02 <jsled> It shouldn't be, of course.
13:46:39 <jsled> Or to write a trivial script that leveraged -- say -- python bindings to do the same, or a bit more interesting stuff.
13:47:12 <esodan> well I realy think to have an API to be used in a C or other programs and get handlers to a tables, queries and so...
13:47:25 <jsled> I'm hoping to address that to some degree if/when I work on the reports, which I'm thinking is "next" for me.
13:48:36 <esodan> what do you mean?
13:49:54 <jsled> "An API to be used in C" .. yeah, that's not exactly clearly right now either. It's kinda qof + engine + some parts of core-util and app-util.
13:51:27 <jsled> I was thinking more about actual application functionality. Summing accounts, iterating over transactions ... stuff like that. Or easily scripting that stuff.
13:51:32 <esodan> That's way I think we can merge all of them in an only one library to be used by other programs or languages...
13:51:56 <jsled> Yeah ... there's another needs-to-happen project about re-modularizing gnucash.
13:52:17 <jsled> So that there's a more coherent "core" library with the same stuff you're referring to.
13:53:00 <warlord> (back)
13:53:10 <warlord> I'll note that none of this is dependent on use Gda
13:53:15 * jsled nods
13:53:29 <warlord> esodan: I'll ask you to PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE separate in your mind "using GObject" and "using GDA"
13:53:47 <warlord> they are two separate things, and you can "use GObject" without using GDA.
13:53:54 <esodan> I realy think that merging all together is the *first* way...
13:54:06 <warlord> I disagree
13:54:18 <warlord> Where code lives is irrelevant to how it works
13:54:41 <warlord> Code can be moved around later
13:56:18 <esodan> Ok you'll right, this could help in make the things more clear and not to have most of the things in diferent files, but ok that's not matter the point is to create an only one window to the outside, indepedient of the code behind...
13:56:25 <jsled> I don't think that we need to have a more coherent "core API" before anything else can happen, though a more elegant system is always better.
13:58:35 <esodan> Let me insist to merge all in a simple GObject hierarchy
13:59:54 *** |gunni| has joined #gnucash
13:59:59 <warlord> esodan: that's fine...
14:00:09 <chris> esodan: implementing the engine objects as a GObject hierarchy is a good first step.
14:00:16 <esodan> and export the data in a way that the external program can use using eather the GC core API or other one... in my point is GDA and the GdaDataModel where you can get rows, fields, values subquery this data and so...
14:00:35 <chris> warlord: I think esodan should work on a branch separate from gda-dev.
14:00:41 <warlord> chris: oh absolutely
14:00:47 <jsled> esodan: There is *only* the GC API.
14:01:07 <warlord> esodan: I dont understand this "and export the data.." thing you mean. There is only one API, the GnuCash API.
14:02:16 <esodan> I agree; what I mean, consider this situation:...
14:03:48 <esodan> You have a year of financial data in GC... and you want to analyze it using a spreadsheet like Gnumeric...
14:04:41 <esodan> Then you need to "import" or "link" a table in the spreadsheet in order to create the analisys...
14:04:50 <chris> esodan: not to be rude, but I want to be really clear, and I know English isn't your first language: the GnuCash developers want to move toward GObject. We also want to move toward libgda. We do NOT want to do it in one step. If you implement the engine objects as a GObject-hierarchy, you will be hailed as a hero. If you do it in a way that depends on libgda at the same time, it very likely won't be merged.
14:05:40 *** Demitar has joined #gnucash
14:05:52 <jsled> esodan: oh. So "export as table", similar to "export as CSV" or "export as XML" or something.
14:06:02 <warlord> esodan: I agree 100% with chris.
14:06:07 * jsled too.
14:08:15 <esodan> mmmmm!....
14:08:22 *** Demitar_ has joined #gnucash
14:09:03 <esodan> well do you want the actual backend system still remain?
14:09:08 <warlord> esodan: yes
14:09:11 <warlord> (for now)
14:09:30 <warlord> Actually, I think not only just for now, but ad infinitum, too
14:09:56 <chris> but it's ok if the interface between engine and backend changes to accomodate GObject.
14:10:32 <jsled> aye, I think it has to. In the same way that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to have qof eventing when gobject signals are present.
14:10:35 <warlord> Yeah, I think it's fine to change the QofBackend interface.. Or perhaps we should rename qof -> gncqof again.
14:10:42 <esodan> warlord: I disagree... with infinitum...
14:10:56 <warlord> esodan: well, I didn't know the latin for "a long long time"
14:11:53 <warlord> :-)
14:12:04 <esodan> Ok I find that I can work around the GObject, but merge all together is ok?
14:12:49 <jsled> esodan: can you rephrase that?
14:13:44 <esodan> I'll work around the GObject hierarchy...
14:14:29 <warlord> "work around"?
14:14:37 <warlord> (trying to understand the translation)
14:15:18 <esodan> I plan to merge most of the functionalities, actualy in diferent and some times to too clear, locations in a one directory and in files with names in common...
14:15:21 <warlord> esodan: I'm also happy to set up a branch in Subversion for you to work on (sort of how Phil has the gda-dev branch to do his GDA Backend work). I could set up a "gobject-dev" branch for you, if you're interested?
14:15:54 <warlord> I would suggest that moving code around wait..
14:15:59 <jsled> indeed.
14:16:00 <esodan> Yes shure...
14:17:53 *** Demitar has quit IRC
14:18:59 <esodan> I want to realy understand some thing (and right my english realy bad!:(, but I hope some patience)
14:20:09 <esodan> Why you don't consider that GDA could replace the actual backend system?
14:20:36 <jsled> I could see it, but in the future.
14:22:19 <jsled> I don't know if it would "replace" the backend system, so much as we wouldn't have a backend system, but GDA would offer some of the same features.
14:22:28 <warlord> esodan: well, for one thing we'd still have to figure out how to get XML imported.. And I think that if we DO decide to go that route it's a MUCH longer-term project. I don't want to call it a goal because I'm not sure that there's consensus that it IS a goal.
14:23:44 *** andi5 has joined #gnucash
14:23:44 *** gncbot sets mode: +o andi5
14:26:28 <esodan> warlord: some time ago you have the idea to replace the actual XML file with a SQLite one... then thats why I thought about to use GDA, "write the code to access to a database once and use with any..."
14:26:38 <jsled> [ot] http://www.macrumorslive.com/ <- iphone detail; check the "More Photos" at the bottom of the right-hand sidebar.
14:27:07 <andi5> jsled: [ot] is not filtered, right?
14:27:21 <jsled> andi5: that's right. just off-topic, not off-record.
14:27:25 <andi5> ok
14:27:29 <jsled> I'm just saying, it's not gnucash related.
14:28:34 <warlord> esodan: "replace" .... more "replace as the default storage method". Also, we're still talking years out..
14:28:59 <warlord> Even if Phil finishes the gda-dev work in the next couple months, SQLite wont be the default in 2.2
14:29:32 <warlord> But I dont think gda-dev will even get done in time for 2.2. (I'd love to be proven wrong).
14:29:55 <jsled> Oh, but we can just keep punting 2.2 out further and further. :)
14:30:00 *** ErKa has quit IRC
14:30:50 <warlord> So, let's assume we get 2.2 out this year, and gda-dev misses 2.2. That means it wont get in until 2.4 (probably 2009). So we wont make it 'default' until 2.6/3.0 (2010-2011).
14:31:06 <warlord> But even in 2.6/3.0 we still need to read XML files.
14:31:24 <warlord> So I think we'll need an XML backend until, oh, 2015.
14:31:31 <jsled> true, but not necessarily as a QofBackend.
14:31:50 <warlord> true..
14:31:56 <esodan> I thought to create a "conversion tool" to "import" the XML to a database... and realy put off the actual format...
14:32:14 <warlord> Sorry, but users don't want to run a conversion tool.
14:32:29 <jsled> Also, I hope we can release a bit faster than that, but we're not even working towards a 2.2 right this week, so ... :/
14:32:31 <warlord> And users want to be able to use old and new versions of gnucash simultaneously.
14:32:48 <jsled> And it's "import the xml to gnucash", not "to a database". :)
14:32:50 <warlord> jsled: I was trying to be realistic.
14:33:08 <jsled> warlord: no, point taken. But I still hope we can improve our development rate.
14:33:43 <warlord> jsled: I hope so, too!
14:34:34 <andi5> i think, windows alone is a reason to bump to 2.2 someday .... this might also help with number of users/devs
14:35:09 <andi5> even, if register-rewrite (likely) and gda-dev (maybe) miss 2.2
14:35:11 <warlord> andi5: I agree, once we get the windows code working well we might want to consider a 3-month 2.1.x test series.
14:35:32 <warlord> it's unfortunate that register-rewrite will miss. :(
14:35:34 <esodan> Q: the GObject move could be planned to 3.0?
14:36:09 <jsled> the SX cleanup shouldn't miss, as it's nearing done.
14:36:15 <jsled> (2.2 that is)
14:36:25 <andi5> ahh, cool :)
14:36:31 <warlord> Cool!
14:36:45 <warlord> I highly suspect gda-dev will miss.
14:37:03 <twunder> jsled: btw, my last update to the SX-cleanup branch wouldn't compile for me...
14:37:16 <jsled> twunder: oh? when was that?
14:37:25 <twunder> over the weekend, IIRC
14:37:27 * twunder looks
14:37:56 <jsled> twunder: Sunday evening I did the first commit in a while.
14:38:27 <twunder> yesterday at 2:51 AM
14:38:54 <jsled> (though it should have compiled before that, too; I only break building from the repo unintentionally.)
14:39:15 <jsled> Oh. Hmm. I'll build clean to see if I can see it. The error would be appreciated.
14:40:14 <esodan> warlord: what happend if I can create a "backend" type for GDA? I mean, allow GDA to get/save data to the XML file format... Why? becouse I think we can do the same thing in an easy way using the GdaDataModel eanstead to try to use the feature-poor QofQuery and data handlers in QOF...
14:41:07 <twunder> -cal.Tpo -c gnc-dense-cal.c -fPIC -DPIC -o .libs/gnc-dense-cal.o
14:41:11 <twunder> gnc-dense-cal.c:171:1: error: "/*" within comment
14:41:15 <twunder> cc1: warnings being treated as errors
14:41:17 <jsled> Heh!
14:41:19 <twunder> gnc-dense-cal.c: In function 'gnc_dense_cal_init':
14:41:19 <twunder> gnc-dense-cal.c:314: warning: implicit declaration of function 'month_name'
14:41:19 <twunder> gnc-dense-cal.c:316: warning: passing argument 2 of 'gdk_string_extents' makes pointer from integer without a cast
14:41:19 <twunder> gnc-dense-cal.c: In function 'gnc_dense_cal_draw_to_buffer':
14:41:19 <twunder> gnc-dense-cal.c:816: warning: passing argument 6 of 'gdk_draw_string' makes pointer from integer without a cast
14:41:22 <twunder> make[5]: *** [gnc-dense-cal.lo] Error 1
14:41:57 <jsled> Pfft. I'm awesome.
14:42:04 <warlord> esodan: That's one approach to solving the "how would we read XML if we used GDA" problem, and I think jsled hinted at that.. But I still don't see the actual problem with QofQuery. I'd still like to see a real problem that needs to be solved.
14:44:39 <jsled> twunder: that (and another problem in gnome-utils/) are fixed in 15331.
14:44:57 * jsled has gotten lazy with fast whole-tree re-compilation.
14:45:12 <twunder> jsled: you're "awesome" ;)
14:49:30 <esodan> warlord: well think that QofQuery don't use an object oriented way to handle fields and conditions like GdaQuery (remember that Gda is based in GObject) then you can't get just the fields you need or add and remove conditions in an object oriented way...
14:50:38 <warlord> esodan: I still dont see the problem. The current usage is always "return the objects that match the query" and then you handle the list of objects as necessary.
14:52:18 <jsled> "not being object oriented" isn't really a problem in and of itself.
14:52:36 <warlord> right
14:54:54 <esodan> but an object oriented way easy to understand and maintainable, and could help to add more functionalities in a easy way (for example to create a new object), ... ....
14:55:10 <warlord> We already have that
14:55:30 <warlord> And I think QOF as it stands is already easy to understand and fairly maintainable.
14:55:48 <warlord> (although I agree that changing QOF to be based on GObject is a Good Thing)
14:58:10 <esodan> Yes but we need to adapt it to GObject, and the QOF way AFAIK must be re-written to be in sync with GObject's way... that's could be a great work... and some times or many could result in conflicts...
14:58:54 *** mnoir has joined #gnucash
14:59:28 <warlord> Well, obviously you can't just drop-in gobject, so yes, SOME work is involved. But it's not a major re-writing, I don't think.
14:59:52 <andi5> hm... is {lists,svn}.gnucash.org down?
15:00:11 <warlord> andi5: nope
15:00:12 <jsled> doens't appear to be.
15:00:33 <mnoir> while deleting some blank splits caused by a very enthusiastic Paypal download, I clicked a 'don't warn me any more' box. Now I cannot delete these blank splits. How do I reset the don't warn me anymore behavior?
15:00:42 <andi5> that is weird
15:00:50 <jsled> Edit > reset warnings, I think.
15:01:00 <esodan> Thats why I think to re-implement the engine using GDA's queries could help to have a fast development process (of course you need a GC XML backend for GDA to use the actual format)
15:02:25 <mnoir> jsled: that is prolly close - probably edit -> preferences->???->reset warnings but I cannot find the ???
15:02:27 <warlord> esodan: I think you're over-estimating the work required to make QOF based on GObject, and underesting the amount of work to use GDA.
15:02:49 <esodan> warlord: the time I had spent in studing QOF and create the plan to GObject, makes me fill that the process is realy dificult...
15:02:56 <andi5> svn.g.org does not like me anymore... connections time out
15:03:12 <jsled> mnoir: sorry. Actions > Reset Warnings.
15:03:19 <warlord> esodan: I still haven't read your document... (the fact that it's OOo instead of .txt had a lot to do with it).
15:03:33 <warlord> andi5: traceroute or mtr?
15:03:57 <mnoir> jsled: thanks - that's it!
15:04:06 <esodan> warlord: Do you want a copy in HTML or other (witch one?)
15:04:22 <warlord> TXT
15:04:45 <esodan> warlord: Ok, I'll try to send to the devel list...
15:04:52 <andi5> 11 225 ms 204 ms 204 ms cvs.gnucash.org [204.107.200.65] .. ping works
15:05:00 <warlord> How long IS it?
15:05:04 <jsled> warlord: you don't have open office installed?
15:05:30 <warlord> jsled: Oh, I have it installed, but I'm lazy when it comes to dealing with email.
15:05:36 <esodan> warlord: you'll miss most of the colors and tables I'd created to try to be clear in the comments...
15:05:46 <warlord> Grrrr...
15:05:51 <warlord> Fine, I'll go read the Ood
15:06:08 <esodan> Good!:)
15:06:09 <warlord> andi5: did you attempt to ssh and miss your password?
15:06:22 <andi5> firefox times out too
15:06:34 <andi5> oh, i do not enter passwords
15:06:45 <warlord> did you ssh and supply an incorrect username?
15:06:56 <warlord> what's your current (external) IP Address?
15:07:01 <andi5> no =) .... nothing changed... wt...
15:07:50 <esodan> warlord: I'll try compare GObject and QOF and where I found the conflicts and why...
15:08:04 <andi5> i would not complain, if i was not in a hurry ;-)
15:08:36 <warlord> This happened at Jan 9 14:51
15:08:55 <warlord> Ahh...
15:08:58 <andi5> what does that mean?
15:09:56 <andi5> i have not changed anything...
15:10:14 <warlord> Okay, you're unblocked again.
15:10:26 <andi5> yeah, thanks...
15:10:28 <warlord> Did you kill an ssh connection abruptly?
15:10:40 <andi5> yes---i think i did that
15:10:57 <andi5> that is a no-no?
15:11:09 <esodan> warlord: consider that GC need be in sync with GLib, and most of the datatypes, functions and so must be reimplemented in order to avoid any future conflicts with GLib
15:11:25 <warlord> andi5: yeah.
15:11:38 <andi5> ok, i am sorry for the trouble... will take care next time
15:11:38 <mnoir> when entering the account for a transaction, trying to specify a sub/sub/account, is there a way to autocomplete the name of the placeholder components? for instance, to quickly specify Expenses/Farm/Livestock/Chicken by typing ex(someonekey)fa(someonekey)li(someonekey)ch(someonekey)? The only wat I can do it that I have found is to type the whole word(s)
15:11:47 <jsled> mnoir: tab.
15:11:48 <warlord> it's something script-kiddies do, so the server is hardend against that.
15:11:48 <mnoir> wat=way
15:11:59 <jsled> mnoir: excuse me, not tab. The separator character.
15:12:10 <jsled> Usually ':'. So, Ex:fa:li:ca
15:12:15 <jsled> Er, s/ca/ch/
15:12:59 <jsled> esodan: future conflicts? reimplemented? which are you thinking of?
15:13:44 <warlord> esodan: yeah, you're not making any sense.
15:14:50 <mnoir> jsled: thanks again. what is the best doc for me to read to aviod imposing these questions? the help doc is not, uuh, helping :)
15:14:58 <esodan> jsled: I think is better to send the comparation beatween GObject and QOF...
15:15:20 <jsled> You know ... that came up on -user recently with the accel keys for the date widget. I don't know if they're well-documented, actually.
15:15:45 <jsled> Though they should (both) be in the Help.
15:16:40 <esodan> jsled: sorry, is just I don't want to work in some thing, and find that we could make the same with other tools more powerfull (well I think) and already in sync with GObject...
15:17:11 <warlord> "More powerful" does not imply "Better" or "more appropriate for the task at hand"
15:17:16 <mnoir> jsled: is this the wrong group for me? is there a gnucash-user group that would be a better forum? i do a lot of support in irq and i do not want to wast time - i usually expect #produce to be for users and #produce-dev or some such to be for developers
15:17:22 <jsled> Yeah .... Help/Contents, §3.3.2.1 #5.
15:17:55 <warlord> mnoir: nope, there's not a seperate channel.
15:17:56 <mnoir> produce-product
15:18:00 <mnoir> k
15:18:02 <jsled> no, this is the only irc channel, and we do user stuff in here.
15:18:03 <esodan> jsled: warlord: Could you take some time to consider a plan to use GDA inside the core with some examples? I could send it too...
15:19:09 <warlord> esodan: sorry, no. that's just not on the table for this decade.
15:20:06 <warlord> I realize that GDA is your hammer..
15:20:42 <warlord> And at first glance it may appear solve the problems gnucash is trying to get solved.
15:21:23 <warlord> but...... I'm not at all convinced that the problems that GDA solves are problems that NEEDS to be solved right now..
15:21:39 <warlord> er, s/NEEDS/NEED/
15:22:10 * andi5 does not do anything in irq ... you never know what may happen next...
15:23:03 <warlord> LOL
15:23:12 <warlord> andi5: all depends on whether you have NMI
15:23:16 <jsled> exactly.
15:23:21 <jsled> heh.
15:23:31 <andi5> is that something to eat?
15:23:52 <andi5> ok, i see
15:24:11 <esodan> Not right now, but may for 3.0 series with a powerfull engine, an OO API, actual XML support and DB support, all with out to rewrite the engine just use the actual backends in GDA (a lot already working)...
15:25:16 <esodan> "with out to rewrite the engine" (is when you want to use a new backend sopported by GDA)
15:25:20 <warlord> esodan: Maybe... But as I said that's a good 4-5 years off.
15:25:23 <warlord> (at least!)
15:25:24 <twunder> jsled: compile breaks at a differnt place now...
15:25:48 <jsled> twunder: ooh, good. Note that I still didn't do a full rebuild because I'm still awesome</sarcasm>.
15:25:57 <mnoir> i forgot to set an opening balance when i made an account - what is the cleanest way to set it now!
15:26:00 <esodan> warlord: As I sed, I realy want to start NOW...
15:26:12 <mnoir> !=?
15:26:28 <twunder> dialog-sx-since-last-run.c: In function 'gnc_sx_slr_tree_model_adapter_new':
15:26:32 <twunder> dialog-sx-since-last-run.c:782: error: 'gsslrtma_added_cb' undeclared (first use in this function)
15:26:32 <twunder> dialog-sx-since-last-run.c:782: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
15:26:32 <twunder> dialog-sx-since-last-run.c:782: error: for each function it appears in.)
15:26:32 <twunder> dialog-sx-since-last-run.c:784: error: 'gsslrtma_removing_cb' undeclared (first use in this function)
15:26:32 <twunder> make[5]: *** [dialog-sx-since-last-run.lo] Error 1
15:26:32 <andi5> mnoir: create a transaction from ... equity, i think
15:26:33 <twunder> make[5]: Leaving directory `/data/SVN/gnucash-sx/src/gnome'
15:26:36 <chris> esodan: Then start with making the engine objects use GObject.
15:26:47 <andi5> or opening balances... there must be something like that :)
15:27:08 <jsled> mnoir: Yeah. Equity:Opening Balances
15:27:11 <warlord> Wow, a "C" error that I don't understand!
15:27:12 <warlord> foo.h:66: error: expected ';', ',' or ')' before 'prefMap'
15:27:12 <warlord> and line 66 says:
15:27:12 <warlord> const FooPrefsMap[] prefMap,
15:27:12 <warlord> FooPrefsMap[] is defined earlier in the file.
15:27:20 <jsled> (that should really be a FAQ, as it's apparently not. :( )
15:27:39 <warlord> esodan: what chris said. Start with just making everything GObject without touching GDA.
15:27:47 <chris> esodan: Just to be clear, we're very aware that doing things in steps is more work than doing then all at once. Nevertheless, that's how it has to happen.
15:27:51 <warlord> Start by turning QOF* into GObject.
15:28:30 <andi5> warlord: that is not gnucash, right?
15:28:34 <warlord> andi5: no.
15:28:41 * foo bows to warlord
15:28:48 <warlord> Heh
15:28:56 <foo> It is an honor for you to name your code after me
15:28:57 <foo> :D
15:28:57 <andi5> foo: was it your pref map?
15:29:09 <foo> andi5: wha?
15:29:15 <foo> oh, no
15:29:16 <foo> hehe
15:29:22 <andi5> oook :)
15:29:28 <chris> esodan: When that step is _done_, we'll have a much clearer idea of what role libgda can play in engine.
15:29:33 <warlord> It seems to be complaining about the []
15:29:41 <esodan> chris: Ok, I could, but I leave QOF for now...
15:29:52 <andi5> yeah, that is the symbol for "character not in font" ;-)
15:30:43 <warlord> :-P
15:31:27 <warlord> esodan: you can't "leave QOF for now" -- you would need to change QOF so that it uses GObject, too. E.g. QOF_INSTANCE would be a GType
15:31:31 <esodan> chris: I can implement the engine objects using GObject and hide (as today) the QOF access (leaving it untouched)...
15:31:55 <warlord> What do you mean, "hide ... the QOF access"?
15:33:08 <warlord> andi5: the weird thing about this error is that if I change [] to * it goes away. I dont know why it doesn't like me specifying this as an array.
15:33:52 <jsled> twunder: fixed. \
15:34:15 <andi5> jsled is our compilation fix monster?
15:34:20 * twunder will reserve judgement on that ;)
15:34:32 <jsled> andi5: no, I just suck.
15:34:35 <andi5> lol
15:34:39 <jsled> andi5: by breaking the build in the first place. :(
15:34:51 <jsled> (though it is on branches/sx-cleanup/
15:34:52 <jsled> )
15:35:03 <esodan> warlord: well, for today the core use QOF with out GObject, then I can create methods in the engine that inside use the QOF API with out expose to the GUI or other parts in GC, then this "parts" could use the engine object's API to access, use the data, accounts and so... all this with out touch the QOF....
15:35:40 <warlord> Oh, duh.. because it needs to be const FooPrefsMap prefMap[]!
15:36:09 <andi5> oh yeah... it looked strange... but hey! :)
15:36:48 <andi5> warlord: did test-numeric.exe pass for you?
15:37:11 <warlord> andi5: sorry, I haven't tried.
15:37:17 <esodan> warlord: As I see the engine uses this already, then this isn't a dificult area...
15:37:18 <warlord> esodan: I don't understand.
15:37:45 <warlord> The QOF API is going to have to change, but the GnuCash API not necessarily.
15:38:24 <warlord> (and by "change" i mean that it wont be ABI compatible, but you could make it 'source' compatible..)
15:39:18 <esodan> sorry (again) for my bad english, I try to explain: I'll make the engine objects use GObject, with methods to access, save, or use data, accounts and so...
15:40:00 <warlord> esodan: But the best way to do that is to change QOF to use GObject.. Then all the engine objects get it for free!
15:40:27 <esodan> This methods will use QOF in his code... with out touch QOF...
15:40:31 <warlord> E.g., if QofInstance is based on GObject, then every engine object suddenly is based on GObject!
15:40:46 <warlord> But I think you SHOULD touch QOF.
15:40:57 <warlord> chris?
15:42:31 <esodan> (I'm reviewing my QOF->GObject Plant, please wait)
15:42:54 <warlord> okay
15:45:56 <esodan> I found that QofInstance and QofEntity have some features that must be merged to have a GObject, becouse the last allow you to have that features... then isn't directly...
15:46:04 <esodan> (reviewing again)
15:46:41 <chris> (I'm half here.)
15:47:34 <chris> Yes, QofInstance/QofEntity should become GObject-derived.
15:47:37 <warlord> esodan: QofInstance already depends on QofEntity, so there's not much that needs to be merged there.
15:48:08 <warlord> in this context "depends on" == "is derived from"
15:48:28 *** andi5 has quit IRC
15:49:34 <esodan> mmm... Add QofClass to the list... it must be splited to fit a GObjectClass and some functionalities move to the GObject implementation...
15:49:39 <chris> esodan: I don't think you need to "wrap" existing QOF methods. Start simple - just implement the inheritance hierarchy, with (almost?) no method changes.
15:51:21 <esodan> (mmmm... seeing the GC code, just a moment)
15:51:41 <chris> QofClass and QofParam can be completely replaced by existing GObject functionality.
15:51:47 <warlord> esodan: QofClass is sort of a misnomer. Yes, it's more like a GObjectClass and not a GObject
15:52:00 <warlord> and... what chris just said.
15:56:07 <esodan> I don't think I realy need to touch QOF, becouse QOF is only or almost used just in the engine, then I can export a GObject oriented API from the objects in the engine and hide the QOF API, you realy don't need to use QOF outside the engine...
15:57:17 <warlord> esodan: not true. we we QOF extensively. e.g. QofQuery, QofParam, etc.
15:57:26 <warlord> those are used EVERYWHERE.
15:59:33 <esodan> QofQuery, QofParam, etc outside, but could be "wrapped" by methods in the engine, becouse QofQuery for example get data results, then a method in the engine could do the same task... using inside QofQuery ofcourse...
16:00:44 <warlord> I think I'd need to see pseudocode to understand what you mean here.
16:01:41 <esodan> well I'll create a plan with pseudocode to explain better... wait in the list...
16:01:46 <warlord> I think it would be easier to keep the same API but just change the underlying implementation.
16:01:59 <chris> QofQuery is a different beast. Its own internal methods will have to adapt to the GObject implementation.
16:02:16 <chris> But think first of the "normal" engine objects, like Account.
16:02:26 <warlord> chris: true, but the external API doesn't really need to change much.
16:02:37 <jsled> Or Transaction.c
16:04:22 <esodan> QofQuery could be there becouse it use QOF Inside, Transactions, Accounts, could be GObjects and hide in his methods the use of QOF...
16:04:24 <chris> esodan: If you're saying that you want to implement the GObject hierarchy from-scratch in new files instead of converting the existing Qof objects to GObjects, that's one possible approach.
16:05:21 <chris> esodan: when you say "the use of QOF" there's really nothing there except A) the stuff that GObject provides and B) QofQuery.
16:05:53 <esodan> Yes, this hierarchy will be concentrated in the engine objects not QOF that is a great work and hours to reimplement (or understand the GObject equivalent)...
16:07:39 <warlord> chris: well, there's "the stuff that GObject provides", "GUIDs and object containers", and then "QofQuery"
16:07:43 <esodan> If I understand, yes the stuff the GObject will provide could use QOF Inside the code with out expose, and QofQuery will be *as is*...
16:08:22 <chris> Personally, I think it would be easier to convert the QofInstance/QofEntity directly to GObjects.
16:08:27 <warlord> So the engine objects would use both QOF /AND/ GObjects??
16:08:31 <chris> (in-place)
16:08:34 <warlord> I'm with chris here.
16:08:36 <esodan> The GUIDs and containers will be as is...
16:09:15 <chris> yeah, best leave the GUIDs and containers as they are.
16:09:29 <esodan> warlord: Yes, the engine objects will be GObjects and inside use QOF...
16:10:21 <warlord> esodan: what do you mean "inside"?
16:10:59 <warlord> The way I see it: QofEntity -> GObject + GUID and then everything just derives from there.
16:11:08 <warlord> quick and painless.
16:11:13 <esodan> But converting QofInstance and QofEntity in GObject is a beast dificult to fit in GObject becouse most of GObject infraestructure are implemented in QOF and isn't easy to merge...
16:11:17 <jsled> esodan: when you say "inside", do you mean their methods -- like xaccTransClone, for instance -- will somehow still use QOF?
16:11:50 <warlord> esodan: I dont understand why you think it would be difficult to convert QofInstance/Entity to GObject.
16:12:55 <esodan> For example: gnc_transaction_clone, this is a GncTransaction object that performs the "clone" method... this method use QOF inside to access the data in GC...
16:13:06 <chris> esodan: I don't think it's so difficult, and the covnersion from qof-provided functionality to gobject-provided functionality can be incremental.
16:13:27 <esodan> warlord: see my plan, and please wait for my comparation beatween GObject and QOF...
16:13:45 <twunder> jsled: make completed without error, make install is running :)
16:13:46 <warlord> ==chris
16:15:10 <esodan> Why don't do the conversion of engine objects to GObject, and then QOF, you will see the diference is far easy and realy less time...
16:15:37 <esodan> (I have to leave, see you later)...
16:16:17 <jsled> esodan: take care. I hope your mail to -devel will focus on specific classes/methods and how you'll convert them.
16:16:42 <jsled> I think concrete discussion -- especially with the language barrier -- is the only way to go.
16:17:55 <warlord> thanks, esodan
16:18:09 <warlord> and yea, I think a concrete discussion is important, too, ==jsled.
16:19:31 <twunder> jsled: make install finished without error, too :)
16:21:11 *** esodan has quit IRC
16:21:13 <warlord> twunder: but did we take a charge? ;)
16:25:54 <twunder> warlord: ???
16:26:19 <warlord> nevermind.. it's a line from Real Genius.
17:00:44 *** twunder has quit IRC
17:02:39 *** motin has joined #gnucash
17:14:15 <chris> [OT] I thought that gnucash took a long time to build. mozilla is worse.
17:15:03 <warlord> I'm sure that OOo is just as bad.
17:16:49 <warlord> see ya
17:16:52 *** warlord is now known as warlord-afk
17:20:19 <jsled> I think open office is worse, actually. I still rebuild moz regularly, but not openoffice.
17:21:12 *** acarrico has joined #gnucash
17:21:43 <acarrico> Anyway to print (filtered) general ledger?
17:22:15 <jsled> hey acarrico.
17:22:27 <acarrico> Hey.
17:22:36 <acarrico> Your jabber is messed up.
17:22:43 <jsled> acarrico: yeah. :(
17:23:05 <jsled> acarrico: I should really try to fix it this weekend. Stupid ejabberd. :/
17:23:49 <acarrico> Seems like creating a transaction report would do it, but I can't make "transaction report" look like general ledger.
17:27:33 <jsled> acarrico: you're looking for the transaction/split formatting?
17:28:53 <acarrico> Yes. In a transaction report, each split seems like a different transaction, whereas in the general ledger, they are together.
17:29:11 <jsled> *sigh*
17:29:19 <jsled> In the General tab, you can change hte style to Multi-Line,
17:29:44 <jsled> then, in the Display tab, you enable "Other Account Name", but...
17:29:48 <acarrico> Is this an FAQ?
17:29:54 <jsled> It still fscking lists Split transactions as "Split".
17:30:22 <jsled> No, I don't think it is. The "*sigh*" is because it doesn't work. :/
17:32:07 <jsled> Grr. There's also the "General Ledger" report in Assets & Liabilities, but it doesn't work in exactly the same way.
17:32:24 <jsled> Oh, but there's the General Journal report in Assets & Liabilities.
17:32:33 <jsled> And it seems to work alright.
17:33:01 <jsled> Except, you can't seem to change the date range, which is annoying.
17:33:31 <acarrico> Transaction report is looking better with multiline. Amounts aren't in debit/credit columns though.
17:38:02 <jsled> acarrico: Also, you can select Reports > Account Report from the General Ledger window to get something which might work.
17:39:26 <acarrico> The Assets & Liabilities/General Ledger report may be reasonable.
17:40:22 <acarrico> Seems like the Debit Credit columns are messed up for some transactions (both splits in Debit).
17:40:46 <acarrico> The appear correct in the actual general ledger.
17:42:32 <acarrico> "Reports > Account Report from the General Ledger window" <- That is very good, except that it includes bogus running balance.
17:42:48 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
17:42:55 <jsled> This is awesome. 5 ways to do it, and they all suck.
17:43:16 <jsled> The running balance can be turned off on Display
17:44:32 <acarrico> Right. OK That is it!
17:44:44 <acarrico> Good job Josh.
17:47:18 <acarrico> In this case it would be nice if I could show the account code too, but it looks like this report doesn't have that option.
17:47:58 <jsled> look like not, indeed.
17:47:59 <acarrico> I'm sure that reports are hard.
17:48:17 <jsled> Oh, but it's scheme. You can fix it, I'm sure. :)
17:48:33 <acarrico> That is probably true.
17:49:05 <acarrico> The design problem exists in any language.
17:54:59 *** rapha has quit IRC
18:23:06 *** minDscrm has quit IRC
18:51:40 *** ErKa has quit IRC
18:51:49 *** jpeach has joined #gnucash
18:51:54 *** jpeach has left #gnucash
18:54:08 *** sjc has joined #gnucash
18:59:35 *** Demitar_ is now known as Demitar
19:06:37 *** gncbot` has joined #gnucash
19:08:37 *** BC^bd has joined #gnucash
19:08:48 *** elb_ has joined #gnucash
19:13:12 *** Demitar has quit IRC
19:13:12 *** |gunni| has quit IRC
19:13:12 *** warlord-afk has quit IRC
19:13:12 *** Rolf has quit IRC
19:13:12 *** piku has quit IRC
19:13:12 *** cortana has quit IRC
19:13:12 *** elb has quit IRC
19:13:12 *** mr-rich has quit IRC
19:13:12 *** BC-bd has quit IRC
19:13:12 *** gncbot has quit IRC
19:13:12 *** dwery has quit IRC
19:13:12 *** chris has quit IRC
19:17:39 *** mr-rich has joined #gnucash
19:17:42 *** piku has joined #gnucash
19:17:46 *** warlord-afk has joined #gnucash
19:18:43 *** Demitar has joined #gnucash
19:18:49 *** cortana has joined #gnucash
19:20:31 *** chris has joined #gnucash
19:21:18 *** dwery has joined #gnucash
19:23:27 *** acarrico has left #gnucash
19:42:13 <chris> @op
19:42:13 <gncbot`> chris: Error: I need to be opped to op someone.
19:42:30 <chris> oh well fine! Be that way.
19:43:22 *** esodan has joined #gnucash
19:50:39 *** tats has joined #gnucash
19:56:37 *** sjc_ has joined #gnucash
20:01:39 *** sjc has quit IRC
20:03:00 <jsled> gncbot`: @nick gncbot
20:03:00 <gncbot`> jsled: Error: "@nick" is not a valid command.
20:03:08 <jsled> @quit
20:03:41 *** gncbot has joined #gnucash
20:03:50 *** jsled sets mode: +o gncbot
20:03:51 <jsled> @op chris
20:03:52 *** gncbot sets mode: +o chris
20:04:04 <jsled> @op warlord-afk
20:04:05 *** gncbot sets mode: +o warlord-afk
20:40:34 *** MacGyver has quit IRC
21:12:36 *** MacGyver has joined #gnucash
21:16:26 *** mnoir has quit IRC
21:18:48 *** sjc_ has quit IRC
21:37:39 *** MacGyver has quit IRC
21:42:56 *** tats has quit IRC
21:47:58 *** twunder has joined #gnucash
22:04:04 *** Demitar_ has joined #gnucash
22:04:34 *** Demitar__ has joined #gnucash
22:09:10 *** benoitg has joined #gnucash
22:13:06 *** Demitar has quit IRC
22:14:12 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
22:16:48 <mishehu> ugh this slib guile thing is being a real big pain.
22:17:37 <mishehu> I tried slib from 2d6 to 3a4, and the only one that could even generate the slibcat with guile 1.6.8 was 2d6. but g-wrap 1.9.6 fails to load in guile 1.6.8...
22:17:39 <warlord> @op benoitg
22:17:40 *** gncbot sets mode: +o benoitg
22:18:10 <warlord> mishehu: fails how? Works fine for most everyone else.
22:18:14 <warlord> (3a3 also works)
22:18:31 <mishehu> and with guile 1.8.1, I can get slib 3a1 to initialize the slibcat file.
22:18:46 <mishehu> nah, can't get 3a3 to work eitiher. there's always some goofy error.
22:19:10 <mishehu> although maybe I forgot to blast the slibcat file when I installed 3a3
22:19:12 <mishehu> let me try again
22:19:41 *** Demitar__ has quit IRC
22:19:52 <warlord> "goofy error" isn't very descriptive.
22:20:00 <mishehu> ERROR: Unbound variable: with-load-pathname
22:20:10 *** Demitar has joined #gnucash
22:20:10 <warlord> From 3a3? I disbelieve.
22:20:15 <mishehu> serious.
22:20:18 <warlord> (although I wouldn't recommend guile 1.8.x)
22:20:30 <mishehu> I know, I've b een trying various combinations
22:20:34 <warlord> Oh, I belive you are serious... I just disbelive the error.
22:20:39 <mishehu> here, Ii'll give you the 3a3 error on 1.6.8
22:20:55 <warlord> 1.6.8, 2d6 or 3a3, and either 1.3.4 or 1.9.6 depending on your version of gcc.
22:21:21 <mishehu> ERROR: In procedure open-file:
22:21:21 <mishehu> ERROR: No such file or directory: "/usr/share/guile/1.6/slib/require"
22:21:53 <mishehu> that's slib 3a3 guile 1.6.8
22:22:58 <warlord> Did you run gnucash as root?
22:23:47 <mishehu> nope, and how would I be able to run gnucash if I can't even run /usr/bin/guile -c "(use-modules (ice-9 slib)) (require 'new-catalog)" to generate the slibcat file?
22:24:11 <warlord> Why would you try to run that by hand?
22:24:22 <mishehu> it says you have to
22:24:27 <warlord> "it"?
22:24:30 <mishehu> in the docs of slib
22:24:36 <warlord> Oh, silly silly boy!
22:24:42 <warlord> ignore that.
22:24:47 <warlord> first, where did you install slib?
22:24:57 <mishehu> it's in /usr/share/guile/site
22:25:00 <warlord> did you put it into /usr/share/guile/1.6/slib?
22:25:04 <mishehu> a subdir named "slib"
22:25:15 <warlord> well that's wrong. Why did you put it there?
22:25:36 <mishehu> g-wrap put itself in there, thought that was just site-related and not guile version related.
22:26:08 <warlord> but you need slib before g-wrap, so how would/should you know where g-wrap installs itself?
22:26:21 <warlord> Never mind.
22:26:23 <mishehu> the first time I dumped in in 1.8/
22:26:25 <warlord> You're thinking too hard.
22:26:29 <warlord> Stop doing that.
22:26:33 <warlord> rm -rf and start over
22:26:36 <warlord> install guile 1.6.8
22:26:44 <mishehu> I
22:26:46 <warlord> install slib into /usr/share/guile/1.6/slib
22:26:49 <mishehu> bah.
22:26:50 <warlord> install g-wrap
22:26:53 <mishehu> already done.
22:26:54 <warlord> install gnucash
22:26:59 <warlord> run gnucash as root
22:27:04 <warlord> (once)
22:27:19 *** benoitg has left #gnucash
22:28:03 <mishehu> warlord: what's the diff in guile between the /usr/share/guile/1.x and /usr/share/guile/site ?
22:28:09 <mishehu> just for my knowledge...
22:28:29 <warlord> I dont know. I dont care. But it's where slib expects to find itself.
22:28:36 <mishehu> ok
22:28:52 <mishehu> that's a good enough answer for me. just thought there was some rhyme or reason.
22:29:00 <elb_> normally site/ is for locally installed extensions, and version/ is for "system" extensions
22:29:04 <elb_> gauging by perl, emacs, etc.
22:29:35 <mishehu> ah
22:29:55 <mishehu> that was sort of what I've been thinking since he told me to dump it in.
22:29:57 <mishehu> ERROR: no code for module (srfi srfi-34)
22:30:12 <mishehu> does that mean I should rebuild g-wrap?
22:31:12 <warlord> mishehu: Did you do what I just said just now, starting from the "rm -rf"?
22:31:57 <mishehu> warlord: I did that for slib
22:32:11 <mishehu> reinstalled it to /usr/share/guile/1.6
22:33:12 <warlord> And then did you build g-wrao?
22:33:43 *** twunder has quit IRC
22:34:06 <warlord> mishehu: please don't second-guess what I'm telling you to do. I am NOT first-line tech-support.
22:34:18 <mishehu> I'm rebuilding it now.
22:34:26 <warlord> okay
22:38:21 <mishehu> chug a chug a chug a chug a choo choo.
22:38:29 <mishehu> compiling gnucash...
22:38:56 <mishehu> (lib mismatch thanks to the patch you guys (I think jsled did) for fixing g-wrap to use glib-2.0)
22:39:22 <warlord> ??
22:41:06 <mishehu> that's why I'm rebuild gnucash.
22:41:34 <warlord> yeah
22:41:36 <mishehu> it might get away with a symlink, but I figured why cause more headache... it only takes a couple minutes to rebuild.
22:42:00 <mishehu> it's a big program nontheless ;-)
22:42:08 <warlord> yep
22:42:19 <mishehu> I saw the new splash screen. already looks nicer.
22:43:11 * mishehu whistles while the computer works.
22:43:42 <mishehu> btw, I wasn't second guessing you, my mind was stuck on slib so when you told me to rm -rf I like a robot only did slib.
22:44:18 <mishehu> I still owe you a beer next time you pass thru chicago
22:44:34 <warlord> I'll be there in july
22:44:57 <mishehu> aw, you don't want to come and freeze your ass off in the winter? january's the best!
22:45:02 <mishehu> </sarcasm>
22:45:08 <warlord> :-P
22:45:29 <elb_> yeah, it's only like 40 right now ;-)
22:45:40 <elb_> at least, unless it's a lot colder tahn it is here in northern indiana
22:45:52 <mishehu> it dropped today
22:45:59 <elb_> although I got a kick out of accuweather today ... it said "cooler and breezy", and "17mph winds"
22:46:00 <mishehu> I had to get out the down coat.
22:46:09 <elb_> that's right, 17mph winds are "breezy" here in the corn fields
22:46:17 * mishehu is glad to not live in the snowbelt of northern indiana
22:46:44 <elb_> I'm just south enough to mostly miss the nasty edge of lake effect (W. Lafayette)
22:47:04 <mishehu> hmm I guess that make can't build more than one source file at a time, because I'm only at half load on my dual core...
22:47:28 <elb_> use 'make -j2' or -j3
22:47:47 <warlord> I /think/ gnucash works with that now...
22:47:48 <mishehu> lafayette's nice, though small. but once you step off of lafayette, it's pigshitfertilizerville
22:47:53 <warlord> (for a long time it didn't)
22:48:14 <elb_> lafayette is larger than I care for
22:48:19 <elb_> I prefer it over here on the west side ;-)
22:48:23 * mishehu 's brain needs to be wrung out, the sponge is full.
22:48:45 <warlord> as for why july -- that's when the IETF comes to Chicago.
22:49:03 <warlord> I'll be there a week.. (unless my friends and family there convince to me have a longer stay)
22:49:23 <mishehu> well, doing make install now.
22:49:25 <elb_> oh really?
22:49:29 <elb_> I might make IETF, then
22:49:38 <warlord> LOLO
22:49:41 <warlord> LOL even
22:49:42 <elb_> though I don't have anything in the pipeline right now
22:49:44 <mishehu> warlord: not into voice over ip are you?
22:49:58 <mishehu> we'll be having a convention around late june here in chicago as well.
22:50:03 <elb_> everything is either last-call or not yet interesting
22:50:16 <warlord> define "into".
22:50:30 <warlord> It's not my field of employment, but I've done SOME work on VoIP.
22:50:37 <warlord> (and I run an asterisk server at home)
22:50:54 <mishehu> warlord: interested in, either on the business side, the development side, or the implementation side
22:51:11 <mishehu> we get people who give presentations on all subjects.
22:51:19 <mishehu> I gave one last year on the development side.
22:51:40 <warlord> umm... on the security-of side
22:52:00 <mishehu> that could fall into either dev or implementation ;-)
22:52:13 <warlord> true
22:52:22 <warlord> security gets its fingers into everything
22:52:36 <mishehu> we have in the past had folks from sangoma, freeswitch dev team (of which I am a part of), asterisk, digium, bayonne, etc.
22:52:43 <mishehu> give presentations
22:52:46 <elb_> the rfc-editor says I have zero I-Ds
22:52:48 <elb_> that can't be right
22:53:16 <warlord> Awww.. no IDs?
22:53:21 <elb_> I'm looking at one right now
22:53:40 * elb_ is perplexed
22:55:41 <mishehu> CHA CHING
22:55:54 *** MacGyver has joined #gnucash
22:56:43 <mishehu> o/` money, get away... get a good job with more pay and you're ooooooo-kay... o/`
22:57:02 <warlord> Heh
22:57:20 <mishehu> now to make a backup copy of my current data files...
22:57:35 <mishehu> just in case I manage to make that implode.
22:58:58 <warlord> I would suggest you copy your data files, ~/.gnucash dir, and ~/.gnome dir.
23:01:52 <mishehu> damn, never realized I had so many log/xac files piling up there
23:01:54 <mishehu> heh.
23:02:06 <warlord> heh
23:02:39 <mishehu> I'll need to consult the wiki to find out what to do with them ;-)
23:03:32 <mishehu> 309mb worth of data + log + xac files... compresses with bzip2 to 25 mb. ;-)
23:04:01 <warlord> erase them
23:05:52 <mishehu> will probably bz2 them up separately and keep them around.
23:06:06 <warlord> sure
23:08:39 <mishehu> hmm weird, it can't seem to obtain a lock (the data is on CIFS)
23:09:40 <mishehu> I certainly have rw permissions on the dir, as I created files on it. does 2.0.x still create a file named "data.file.LCK" as the lock file?
23:10:06 <warlord> Yes
23:10:17 <mishehu> hmm I wonder why it's failing to create that then.
23:10:19 <warlord> And it's quite possible there's still problems on CIFS
23:10:47 <mishehu> are you referring to a bug in CIFS or a bug in how gnucash works on CIFS ?
23:11:06 <warlord> Unclear.
23:12:11 <mishehu> let me see what strace brings up.
23:16:40 <mishehu> hmm when I open up a file locally, though it doesn't fail I do see an error with teh lock file in the strace - 12980 open("/work/gnucash/testing.gnucash.LCK", O_RDONLY) = -1 EACCES (Permission denied)
23:23:28 <warlord> I think I'd need to see more context.
23:24:21 <mishehu> oddly enough, I don't see any errors with accessing the file on the CIFS share.
23:24:34 <mishehu> I see it link the .LCK file and a .LNK file, no errors.
23:24:45 <warlord> Huh.
23:26:13 <mishehu> in teh strace, I see where the system creates (link()) the test.gnucash.LCK file successfully, and as well there's a .LNK file it creates too.
23:27:49 <mishehu> err sorry, the open() system call.
23:28:11 <mishehu> 12980 open("/cifsshare/gnucash-data/test.gnucash.LCK", O_RDWR|O_CREAT|O_EXCL, 0) = 15
23:29:25 *** contactium has joined #gnucash
23:30:22 <contactium> hello all
23:30:56 <warlord> That's a success.
23:34:47 <contactium> I installed gnucash on gNewSense (light and free Ubuntu), but I do not know how the French version. Is what there is a file of translation added?
23:35:40 <warlord> contactium: LANG=fr gnucash
23:35:49 <mishehu> warlord: time to enable vfs ext_audit on samba, maybe I can see what the server sees.
23:36:12 <warlord> mishehu: good luck. i'm heading to bed soon
23:36:34 <mishehu> warlord: thanks for your help thus far.
23:36:41 <warlord> you're welcome.
23:38:59 <mishehu> [2007/01/09 22:38:01, 1] modules/vfs_extd_audit.c:audit_chmod_acl(309)
23:39:17 <mishehu> vfs_extd_audit: chmod_acl cifsshare/test.gnucash.7f0100.13013.LNK mode 0x1b4 failed: Function not implemented
23:39:29 <mishehu> that's where it's failing.
23:39:46 <contactium> warlord : if I launch the order lang=fr gnucash in a terminal I still have in English
23:39:47 <mishehu> what does gnucash do to the modes on the .LNK file?
23:40:24 <mishehu> LANG
23:40:29 <mishehu> it's case sensitive.
23:41:28 <contactium> sorry, if I launch the order LANG=fr gnucash in a terminal I still have in English
23:42:25 <warlord> contactium: Um, try LANG=fr LANGUAGE=fr gnucash
23:44:18 <warlord> mishehu: I think it tries to set the mode 000... Maybe..
23:44:55 <contactium> warlord : Not, always in English. Perhaps I miss the file of translation?
23:46:05 <warlord> contactium: po/fr.po
23:46:14 <warlord> did you not do a full gnucash installation?
23:46:21 <warlord> "make install" should install the translations..
23:47:19 <contactium> I installed with synaptic (apt-get) version 1.8
23:47:57 <contactium> I check pop/fr.po
23:47:58 <warlord> contactium: try fr_FR instead of just fr. When I just use 'fr' I get:
23:47:58 <warlord> (gnucash:19124): Gtk-WARNING **: Locale not supported by C library.
23:47:58 <warlord> Using the fallback 'C' locale.
23:56:26 <contactium> warlord : Yes I have the message: Gdk-WARNING **: locale not supported by C library
23:56:41 <warlord> contactium: with fr or fr_FR?
23:57:17 <contactium> with fr
23:57:36 <contactium> I try with fr_FR
23:58:28 <contactium> And with fr_FR
00:06:16 *** jpeach has joined #gnucash
00:06:24 *** jpeach has left #gnucash
00:13:00 *** benoitg has joined #gnucash
00:14:53 <mishehu> oh don't tell me that g-wrap tries to link to glib v1.x...
00:15:22 <mishehu> it's searching for glib-conf, which does not appear in recent glib v2.x...
00:28:52 *** benoitg has left #gnucash
00:33:17 *** benoitg has joined #gnucash
00:33:17 *** gncbot sets mode: +o benoitg
01:13:47 <mishehu> ugh.
01:14:14 <mishehu> /opt/gnome-2.16.2/share/gnucash/scm/hooks.scm:22:3: In procedure gnc:hook-run-danglers-real in expression (gnc:hook-run-danglers-real hook args):
01:14:29 <mishehu> /opt/gnome-2.16.2/share/gnucash/scm/hooks.scm:22:3: Wrong type argument in position 2: #f
01:14:44 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
01:14:51 <warlord> mishehu: You've got guile 1.6.x?
01:15:21 <mishehu> warlord: I asked about that earlier, nobody responded. the guy who wrote a few lines about teh install in slackware-like systems said he installed 1.6.8. I have 1.8.1.
01:15:42 <mishehu> if it's incompatible with 1.8.x, I'll install 1.6.8 in parallel.
01:17:10 <mishehu> just give the word and I'll do it. in the meantime, must sleep.
01:17:14 <warlord> mishehu: I dont know. FC6, which has guile 1.8.x, works fine. But for some reason other people who compile guile 1.8.x seem to have this problem with guile + g-wrap.
01:17:20 <warlord> Which version of g-wrap, by the way>
01:17:29 <mishehu> g-wrap 1.9.7
01:17:42 <mishehu> couldn't get 1.3.4 to build.
01:17:53 <warlord> 1.9.7? Not 1.9.6?
01:18:07 <mishehu> that one choked on build as well.
01:18:39 <mishehu> it was some scheme related thing, and as I don't know scheme I went back to trying 1.9.7
01:18:56 <mishehu> I'll try guile 1.6.8 in parallel tomorrow.
01:19:04 <warlord> I wouldn't even try "in parallel".
01:19:30 * mishehu must sleep...
01:19:33 <warlord> I'd remove your current guile/gnucash/g-wrap/slib, and then install guile 1.6.x, slib 3a3, g-wrap (1.9.6 or 1.3.4), and then gnucash
01:19:52 <mishehu> alright.
01:19:57 <mishehu> that'll be for tomorrow. heh.
01:24:44 <warlord> And if you were running any other Distro, you'd be done by now ;)
01:40:41 *** benoitg has left #gnucash
01:43:53 *** bistra has joined #gnucash
01:44:09 <bistra> Morning All!!!!
01:44:54 <bistra> Can anyone tell me how to change the reporting year from January/December to July/June????
01:47:07 <MacGyver> yeah, right click on your clock
01:47:21 <warlord> bistra: In the report options you can set the start/end dates.
01:47:51 <bistra> Tks Warlord, nice to talk to you again!!
01:48:01 <MacGyver> oops, wrong channel
01:48:11 <MacGyver> thought i was in ##java :-p
01:48:12 <bistra> Tks McGyver :)))))
01:48:23 <MacGyver> bistra: anytime ;)
01:49:48 <warlord> heh.
01:49:55 <warlord> anyways, bedtime for me. Good night.
01:50:02 *** warlord is now known as warlord-afk
01:50:10 <bistra> G'night Warlord Tks again
01:57:40 *** |gunni| has quit IRC
02:03:24 <bistra> anyone around????
02:03:59 <bistra> OK g'nitr all!!!
02:04:08 *** bistra has quit IRC
02:04:21 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
02:17:10 *** ErKa has quit IRC
02:20:34 *** bistra has joined #gnucash
02:21:13 *** bistra has quit IRC
03:24:35 *** rauch|sleep is now known as rauch
03:25:02 *** jpeach has joined #gnucash
03:46:41 *** RallyU has joined #gnucash
03:50:24 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
03:51:25 *** RallyU has left #gnucash
04:30:49 *** simone has joined #gnucash
04:31:19 *** simone has left #gnucash
07:40:45 *** jpeach has left #gnucash
08:05:44 *** twunder has joined #gnucash
08:08:36 *** Rolf has joined #gnucash
08:46:38 <jsled> @tell mishehu g-wrap-1.9.6 at least needs to be patched to look for glib2 rather than glib-1.x, as per <http://www.zugaina.org/gentoo/ecatmurs/portage/dev-libs/g-wrap/files/g-wrap-glib-problem-fix.patch>.
08:46:38 <gncbot> jsled: The operation succeeded.
09:00:56 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
09:12:10 <warlord> good morning, all.
09:20:58 <jsled> morning.
09:37:18 *** wizkid238_ has joined #gnucash
09:40:00 *** rapha has joined #gnucash
09:45:35 *** wizkid238 has quit IRC
09:48:33 <rapha> Hi all!
09:49:03 <rapha> I want to use GnuCash and have a question about shares (of a company)
09:49:28 <rapha> How do you enter them? I have for example 12 shares of Deutsche Lufthansa, but their value is changing every day
09:49:47 <jsled> rapha: you'll want to read the tutorial and concepts guide, which covers this.
09:49:49 <rapha> So I can't enter a value, but there doesn't seem the be a place to enter their value
09:49:53 <rapha> Ah okay
09:49:55 <rapha> Sorry then
09:49:58 * rapha reads
09:50:40 <rapha> Just to say this, I did fine until now with Cash and Accounts and stuff without looking at any guides... so kudos to you guys for the user interface!
09:50:47 <jsled> :)
09:51:59 <rapha> Heh, just a minor problem with that UI (oops :) ) ... when I click "GnuCash Kurs und Konzepte" or "Inhalt" (under the Help menu), nothing happens :(
09:52:17 <jsled> rapha: what distro?
09:52:26 <rapha> Ubuntu Edgy
09:52:30 <jsled> you might need a seperate "gnucash-docs" package to be installed.
09:52:41 * rapha looks
09:52:58 <jsled> In the mean time, http://svn.gnucash.org/docs/guide/ is a web-based copy.
09:53:05 <rapha> Stupid... they should make the docs part of the package.
09:53:10 <rapha> Well
09:53:24 <rapha> They have made it a dependancy obviously... docs are installed alright.
09:53:50 <jsled> Hmm. Actaully, you're running gnucash-2.x, right?
09:53:52 <rapha> Maybe I should compile it myself.
09:53:55 <rapha> 2.0.1, yup
09:54:30 <jsled> I do not recommend to build it yourself, especially as it's already packaged.
09:55:06 <jsled> rapha: it'd be good to know what's printed on the console when it doens't work from the menu; could be a bug...
09:55:11 <rapha> Would be no problem... I've quite a bit more experience with building software than with doing accounting stuff :)
09:56:07 <rapha> Ouch. No gtkmozembed.
09:56:13 * rapha installs
09:56:40 <jsled> huh. that does sound like a packaging bug, unless you've been bypassing the packaging system there. :)
09:58:03 <rapha> Nope, I haven't... those LFS days are over for me.
09:58:35 <warlord> rapha: The short answer to your question: set it up as a Stock account. (I don't know the german translation)
09:58:45 <rapha> (Done it for Ruby since Ubuntu's 1.8.4 is compiled with GCC's O2 which in turn triggers a nasty bug... but that won't affect GnuStep)
09:59:07 <jsled> s/Step/Cash/?
09:59:59 <mishehu> so I'm not the only masochist in here?
09:59:59 <gncbot> mishehu: Sent 1 hour and 13 minutes ago: <jsled> g-wrap-1.9.6 at least needs to be patched to look for glib2 rather than glib-1.x, as per <http://www.zugaina.org/gentoo/ecatmurs/portage/dev-libs/g-wrap/files/g-wrap-glib-problem-fix.patch>.
10:00:02 <rapha> warlord: Aktienkonto. I am using the accounts supplied with GnuCash... my guess is I that I don't understand how GnuCash calculates the amount of what your stocks are worth by hand of the stock course
10:00:09 <rapha> jsled: yes, sry
10:00:21 <mishehu> I hope that patch works, it only changes a line or two in the configure script.
10:00:35 <jsled> mishehu: it does, and it does.
10:00:58 <jsled> mishehu: And, no, as he said: his LFS days are over. And it might even be the case that slack is worse than LFS. ;p
10:01:10 <elb> it is
10:01:12 <rapha> Wierd. No chance to get gtkmozembed installed under Ubuntu, it's in none of their repositories. I'll file a bug.
10:01:14 <elb> at least with lfs you know what's there
10:01:29 <rapha> jsled: Why, of course it it! :)
10:01:42 <rapha> Although the wierdest distro I've tried to day must be GoboLinux.
10:02:04 <jsled> rapha: I was just looking at that the other day. Weird, but strangely logical.
10:02:27 <rapha> jsled: it is indeed. They have some nice concepts in there and if I still had the time, I'd give it a spin again.
10:02:44 <jsled> Similar to an application being a transiently-mounted virtual file system ... odd, but strangely compelling.
10:02:51 <rapha> jsled: It's also freaking fast, no idea why. Or at least, their early versions were.
10:03:01 <jsled> Yeah, I really need to get some qemu or vmware spaces to try out things like that.
10:03:57 <warlord> rapha: Well, when you create the new Aktienkonto it should require you to set the commodity.
10:04:00 <elb> the claim that you don't need a package manager is clearly ignorant
10:04:05 <rapha> jsled: just to clarify, GnuCash does need gtkmozembed, right? So unless I get that installed or compile Mozilla from sources, too, recompiling GnuCash won't help a bit?
10:04:29 <warlord> rapha: no, gnucash does NOT need gtkmozembed
10:04:32 <jsled> rapha: gnucash does not need gtkmozembed, but yelp does, I think.
10:04:48 <rapha> elb: GoboLinux works quite well without one, if you stick to their standards. Kinda like a Ruby on Rails of Linux distros
10:04:56 <rapha> Ah kay, then I'll recompile.
10:05:20 <jsled> gnucash uses gtkhtml
10:05:32 <jsled> rapha: you'll recompile... yelp, I take it?
10:05:52 <rapha> Oh
10:05:55 <elb> rapha: as long as you never *remove* packages ... if you remove a library, you can still break dependencies, even though you removed it "cleanly"
10:06:00 <rapha> So GnuCash uses Yelp for displaying its docs?
10:06:50 <rapha> warlord: commodity, is that the number of stocks I have or the value (in $$/EE) to which they amount?
10:07:40 <rapha> elb: true, that even goes for GoboLinux. Iirr tho, they say that at the current point the users for which their system is intended can and want to handle that themselves.
10:07:41 <jsled> yeah, and it's yelp that should use gtkmozembed; but, again, the packages for that should already be setup.
10:08:25 <rapha> And they are. And Yelp loads. Just when I click the Guide menu item in GnuCash, it complains about missing gtkmozembed.
10:08:32 <warlord> rapha: neither. the commodity is the "stock" defintion.. The name of the stock.
10:08:44 <elb> rapha: they can claim that, I guess ...
10:08:48 <rapha> warlord: Oh okay, like MSFT for Microsoft?
10:09:12 <warlord> The Stock Account would contain the quantity of stock you hold. The PriceDB maintains the current price which gnucash uses to compute the current value.
10:09:15 <warlord> Yeah!
10:09:33 <rapha> elb: Well, whatever :-) ... I just wanted to evaluate on jsled's point that it's a nice system somehow, even tho it's also kinda wierd.
10:09:51 <rapha> Aaah okay
10:10:15 <rapha> PriceDB is what is called Werkzeuge (Tools) > Aktien (Stocks) in the menu where I had to enter the stock symbols and stuff?
10:10:25 <warlord> You cannot create a Stock account without setting the commodity.
10:10:42 <warlord> And then when you open the stock account you can edit the #shares, the price, and the value
10:10:58 <rapha> k
10:11:05 <rapha> then I think I might know what went wrong
10:11:07 * rapha tries
10:12:41 <rapha> Hmm
10:12:42 <rapha> nope
10:13:12 <rapha> warlord: I created a new account under "Stock Depot" and gave it an initial value of '12', but it changed that to 12 euros :(
10:14:18 <rapha> There's the prob
10:14:28 <warlord> Are you sure you set the proper account type?
10:15:09 <rapha> The New Account dialog has a selection list "Account Type". It's set to "Aktiva" by default, which I didn't expect. Since it is a sub-account to "Stock Depot" I expected it to automatically be of type "Stock"
10:16:04 <rapha> Now its created it properly
10:16:29 <rapha> (And I gather it you can't have an initial value for stocks?)
10:21:03 *** warlord2 has joined #gnucash
10:21:04 *** gncbot sets mode: +o warlord2
10:21:05 <elb> you cna manually enter a price
10:22:26 <rapha> Yes, I did. It's working now :)
10:23:01 <warlord2> Good.
10:23:07 <warlord2> @op
10:23:07 *** gncbot sets mode: +o warlord2
10:23:35 <rapha> I'm just not sure if I should let GnuCash ... dunno how to say it in English ... let it "book" the stocks with the "Initial Amount" account like it does for my money account
10:24:11 <warlord2> That's up to you.
10:24:40 *** warlord has quit IRC
10:25:12 <rapha> Oh, okay.
10:25:28 <rapha> Never thought this hole finance stuff could be that interesting :)
10:29:34 *** roe has joined #gnucash
10:30:36 <roe> I'm investigating using GnuCash for our small business, I was wondering if anyone else is doing so and if so what their experiences are
10:30:49 *** warlord2 is now known as warlord
10:30:55 <warlord> lots of people do.
10:33:01 <roe> successfully? We tried using sql ledger but the interace was too sluggish and for us non-accounting types the flow/terminology was lost on us
10:37:30 <warlord> roe: You can ask on gnucash-user
10:37:46 <rapha> roe: I've just started using GnuCash (will use it for the household and my one-person-business) and I must say it's very easy to understand even if you've never dealt with finance stuff before.
10:38:17 <roe> warlord: sorry, didn't realize this wasn't the user forum
10:38:26 <warlord> roe: I meant the mailing list
10:38:35 <roe> ah
10:43:20 <jsled> roe: or, search the list archives for a similar query; I think this came up on -user not too long ago ... sometime in the last year, maybe.
10:43:36 <roe> ok, will do, thank you
10:44:18 <rapha> WOW! COOL! There's even automatic recurring payments!
10:45:45 <warlord> That's been there since 1.8
10:48:13 <rapha> Well yes, but I only started using it now :)
10:48:44 <rapha> Also how detailed you guys made everything
10:48:54 <rapha> And how many premade accounts there are
10:49:36 <rapha> I mean, this thing seems to be able to handle about most everybody's finances better than themselves.
10:50:15 <rapha> And I was wondering all the time how I should organize everyhing... you got it all in there, all in a premade structure :)
10:52:03 <warlord> rapha: That WAS the point! :)
11:05:10 <rapha> :-)
11:06:39 <rapha> Budgets... does that mean I can say I give myself a budget of, say, 30 EUR a week for food and stuff?
11:08:40 <chris> rapha: right, but be careful. If you spend your 30 EUR too early, GnuCash will actually prevent you from purchasing any more food. You could starve.
11:09:10 <warlord> heh
11:09:12 <rapha> Oh
11:09:30 <rapha> But it can make coffee, right, so that won't be a problem?
11:09:40 <warlord> And do your dishes..
11:09:45 <warlord> (with the included kitchen sink)
11:09:56 *** cstim has joined #gnucash
11:09:57 *** gncbot sets mode: +o cstim
11:10:24 <rapha> My flat-mates do the dishes, I'll liberally relieve GnuCash of that task.
11:10:52 <cstim> you have a flat-rate for the dishes?
11:12:43 <warlord> Heh.
11:14:39 *** roe has left #gnucash
11:18:02 <rapha> lol
11:18:38 <rapha> Hmm the automatic thingy tells me it'll need a template, but doesn't let you enter anything but the description into the template
11:19:04 <rapha> Nm
11:23:34 *** ErKa has quit IRC
11:23:53 <rapha> Oops
11:23:57 <rapha> Now I crashed it
11:24:25 <rapha> :(
11:41:09 <jsled> :( rapha, when did it crash?
11:41:23 <jsled> you should be able to either tab or click on the template register as like any other.
11:48:00 <chris> rapha: did you close a regular register while the template editor was open?
11:56:41 *** cstim has quit IRC
13:10:20 *** esodan has joined #gnucash
13:18:24 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
13:18:30 <esodan> Happy new year for every body!
13:18:46 <jsled> happy new year esodan
13:19:13 <warlord> hiya esodan
13:20:01 <esodan> Thaks to all... :)
13:20:57 <esodan> Have you time to talk about some issues about GObject in the GC's core? or is too early this year :-P
13:21:48 <warlord> Heheh
13:22:44 <warlord> I think migrating to GObject would be a Good Thing (TM)
13:23:49 <esodan> well I have been thinking about this issue and found very convenient to have GObject directly in the core... I think we agree about this right?
13:25:01 <jsled> yup.
13:25:04 <warlord> Yeah
13:27:27 <esodan> Ok...!
13:29:05 <esodan> Then, do we want GC have *just* support for Databases engines like SQLite, PostgreSQL, MySQL, and others?
13:29:43 <jsled> esodan: what do you mean?
13:30:58 <jsled> esodan: As opposed to an xml or other backend?
13:32:05 <esodan> well today we have been using a XML file and a PostgreSQL backends, and if we want an other we need to implement that backend using the actual infrastructure QOF...
13:32:24 <warlord> (on phone)
13:32:37 <jsled> that's right.
13:33:04 <esodan> This will take some time to be implemented...
13:34:22 <esodan> the actual QofQuery it's so limited in the way to create powerfull queries like: select specific fields, add subqueries and so...
13:35:08 <esodan> I have the following idea:...
13:36:54 <esodan> "Allow other programs to access to the GC's data (financial data) using an API (not an instance)"...
13:39:07 <esodan> If we write the core to take data from a database server then a program can access financial data managed by the server but using only one API...
13:41:38 <esodan> what I mean? May we can allow a program to get a "table" (a GdaDataModel) representing some specific data from a specific account, then this program can create custome analisys or use some other powerfull tools like in a spreadsheet (thing in Gnumeric that can use GDA)
13:43:13 <jsled> you're saying, in effect: make the engine API itself a relational model.
13:43:26 <jsled> The only API to gnucash is through tables/views/sql.
13:44:08 <esodan> For the moment I can't list the functionality in the API before to study the actual core... but I can say that some common operations like: "save this transaction", "get transactions from this account", "get average from this accounts", and soe could be usefull for an external tool.
13:45:08 <jsled> true.
13:45:21 <jsled> the swig bindings are part of that. the reports are part of that.
13:45:53 <jsled> but it's impossible to say something like `gnucash --get-account-balance=Assets:Checking $file` right now.
13:46:02 <jsled> It shouldn't be, of course.
13:46:39 <jsled> Or to write a trivial script that leveraged -- say -- python bindings to do the same, or a bit more interesting stuff.
13:47:12 <esodan> well I realy think to have an API to be used in a C or other programs and get handlers to a tables, queries and so...
13:47:25 <jsled> I'm hoping to address that to some degree if/when I work on the reports, which I'm thinking is "next" for me.
13:48:36 <esodan> what do you mean?
13:49:54 <jsled> "An API to be used in C" .. yeah, that's not exactly clearly right now either. It's kinda qof + engine + some parts of core-util and app-util.
13:51:27 <jsled> I was thinking more about actual application functionality. Summing accounts, iterating over transactions ... stuff like that. Or easily scripting that stuff.
13:51:32 <esodan> That's way I think we can merge all of them in an only one library to be used by other programs or languages...
13:51:56 <jsled> Yeah ... there's another needs-to-happen project about re-modularizing gnucash.
13:52:17 <jsled> So that there's a more coherent "core" library with the same stuff you're referring to.
13:53:00 <warlord> (back)
13:53:10 <warlord> I'll note that none of this is dependent on use Gda
13:53:15 * jsled nods
13:53:29 <warlord> esodan: I'll ask you to PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE separate in your mind "using GObject" and "using GDA"
13:53:47 <warlord> they are two separate things, and you can "use GObject" without using GDA.
13:53:54 <esodan> I realy think that merging all together is the *first* way...
13:54:06 <warlord> I disagree
13:54:18 <warlord> Where code lives is irrelevant to how it works
13:54:41 <warlord> Code can be moved around later
13:56:18 <esodan> Ok you'll right, this could help in make the things more clear and not to have most of the things in diferent files, but ok that's not matter the point is to create an only one window to the outside, indepedient of the code behind...
13:56:25 <jsled> I don't think that we need to have a more coherent "core API" before anything else can happen, though a more elegant system is always better.
13:58:35 <esodan> Let me insist to merge all in a simple GObject hierarchy
13:59:54 *** |gunni| has joined #gnucash
13:59:59 <warlord> esodan: that's fine...
14:00:09 <chris> esodan: implementing the engine objects as a GObject hierarchy is a good first step.
14:00:16 <esodan> and export the data in a way that the external program can use using eather the GC core API or other one... in my point is GDA and the GdaDataModel where you can get rows, fields, values subquery this data and so...
14:00:35 <chris> warlord: I think esodan should work on a branch separate from gda-dev.
14:00:41 <warlord> chris: oh absolutely
14:00:47 <jsled> esodan: There is *only* the GC API.
14:01:07 <warlord> esodan: I dont understand this "and export the data.." thing you mean. There is only one API, the GnuCash API.
14:02:16 <esodan> I agree; what I mean, consider this situation:...
14:03:48 <esodan> You have a year of financial data in GC... and you want to analyze it using a spreadsheet like Gnumeric...
14:04:41 <esodan> Then you need to "import" or "link" a table in the spreadsheet in order to create the analisys...
14:04:50 <chris> esodan: not to be rude, but I want to be really clear, and I know English isn't your first language: the GnuCash developers want to move toward GObject. We also want to move toward libgda. We do NOT want to do it in one step. If you implement the engine objects as a GObject-hierarchy, you will be hailed as a hero. If you do it in a way that depends on libgda at the same time, it very likely won't be merged.
14:05:40 *** Demitar has joined #gnucash
14:05:52 <jsled> esodan: oh. So "export as table", similar to "export as CSV" or "export as XML" or something.
14:06:02 <warlord> esodan: I agree 100% with chris.
14:06:07 * jsled too.
14:08:15 <esodan> mmmmm!....
14:08:22 *** Demitar_ has joined #gnucash
14:09:03 <esodan> well do you want the actual backend system still remain?
14:09:08 <warlord> esodan: yes
14:09:11 <warlord> (for now)
14:09:30 <warlord> Actually, I think not only just for now, but ad infinitum, too
14:09:56 <chris> but it's ok if the interface between engine and backend changes to accomodate GObject.
14:10:32 <jsled> aye, I think it has to. In the same way that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to have qof eventing when gobject signals are present.
14:10:35 <warlord> Yeah, I think it's fine to change the QofBackend interface.. Or perhaps we should rename qof -> gncqof again.
14:10:42 <esodan> warlord: I disagree... with infinitum...
14:10:56 <warlord> esodan: well, I didn't know the latin for "a long long time"
14:11:53 <warlord> :-)
14:12:04 <esodan> Ok I find that I can work around the GObject, but merge all together is ok?
14:12:49 <jsled> esodan: can you rephrase that?
14:13:44 <esodan> I'll work around the GObject hierarchy...
14:14:29 <warlord> "work around"?
14:14:37 <warlord> (trying to understand the translation)
14:15:18 <esodan> I plan to merge most of the functionalities, actualy in diferent and some times to too clear, locations in a one directory and in files with names in common...
14:15:21 <warlord> esodan: I'm also happy to set up a branch in Subversion for you to work on (sort of how Phil has the gda-dev branch to do his GDA Backend work). I could set up a "gobject-dev" branch for you, if you're interested?
14:15:54 <warlord> I would suggest that moving code around wait..
14:15:59 <jsled> indeed.
14:16:00 <esodan> Yes shure...
14:17:53 *** Demitar has quit IRC
14:18:59 <esodan> I want to realy understand some thing (and right my english realy bad!:(, but I hope some patience)
14:20:09 <esodan> Why you don't consider that GDA could replace the actual backend system?
14:20:36 <jsled> I could see it, but in the future.
14:22:19 <jsled> I don't know if it would "replace" the backend system, so much as we wouldn't have a backend system, but GDA would offer some of the same features.
14:22:28 <warlord> esodan: well, for one thing we'd still have to figure out how to get XML imported.. And I think that if we DO decide to go that route it's a MUCH longer-term project. I don't want to call it a goal because I'm not sure that there's consensus that it IS a goal.
14:23:44 *** andi5 has joined #gnucash
14:23:44 *** gncbot sets mode: +o andi5
14:26:28 <esodan> warlord: some time ago you have the idea to replace the actual XML file with a SQLite one... then thats why I thought about to use GDA, "write the code to access to a database once and use with any..."
14:26:38 <jsled> [ot] http://www.macrumorslive.com/ <- iphone detail; check the "More Photos" at the bottom of the right-hand sidebar.
14:27:07 <andi5> jsled: [ot] is not filtered, right?
14:27:21 <jsled> andi5: that's right. just off-topic, not off-record.
14:27:25 <andi5> ok
14:27:29 <jsled> I'm just saying, it's not gnucash related.
14:28:34 <warlord> esodan: "replace" .... more "replace as the default storage method". Also, we're still talking years out..
14:28:59 <warlord> Even if Phil finishes the gda-dev work in the next couple months, SQLite wont be the default in 2.2
14:29:32 <warlord> But I dont think gda-dev will even get done in time for 2.2. (I'd love to be proven wrong).
14:29:55 <jsled> Oh, but we can just keep punting 2.2 out further and further. :)
14:30:00 *** ErKa has quit IRC
14:30:50 <warlord> So, let's assume we get 2.2 out this year, and gda-dev misses 2.2. That means it wont get in until 2.4 (probably 2009). So we wont make it 'default' until 2.6/3.0 (2010-2011).
14:31:06 <warlord> But even in 2.6/3.0 we still need to read XML files.
14:31:24 <warlord> So I think we'll need an XML backend until, oh, 2015.
14:31:31 <jsled> true, but not necessarily as a QofBackend.
14:31:50 <warlord> true..
14:31:56 <esodan> I thought to create a "conversion tool" to "import" the XML to a database... and realy put off the actual format...
14:32:14 <warlord> Sorry, but users don't want to run a conversion tool.
14:32:29 <jsled> Also, I hope we can release a bit faster than that, but we're not even working towards a 2.2 right this week, so ... :/
14:32:31 <warlord> And users want to be able to use old and new versions of gnucash simultaneously.
14:32:48 <jsled> And it's "import the xml to gnucash", not "to a database". :)
14:32:50 <warlord> jsled: I was trying to be realistic.
14:33:08 <jsled> warlord: no, point taken. But I still hope we can improve our development rate.
14:33:43 <warlord> jsled: I hope so, too!
14:34:34 <andi5> i think, windows alone is a reason to bump to 2.2 someday .... this might also help with number of users/devs
14:35:09 <andi5> even, if register-rewrite (likely) and gda-dev (maybe) miss 2.2
14:35:11 <warlord> andi5: I agree, once we get the windows code working well we might want to consider a 3-month 2.1.x test series.
14:35:32 <warlord> it's unfortunate that register-rewrite will miss. :(
14:35:34 <esodan> Q: the GObject move could be planned to 3.0?
14:36:09 <jsled> the SX cleanup shouldn't miss, as it's nearing done.
14:36:15 <jsled> (2.2 that is)
14:36:25 <andi5> ahh, cool :)
14:36:31 <warlord> Cool!
14:36:45 <warlord> I highly suspect gda-dev will miss.
14:37:03 <twunder> jsled: btw, my last update to the SX-cleanup branch wouldn't compile for me...
14:37:16 <jsled> twunder: oh? when was that?
14:37:25 <twunder> over the weekend, IIRC
14:37:27 * twunder looks
14:37:56 <jsled> twunder: Sunday evening I did the first commit in a while.
14:38:27 <twunder> yesterday at 2:51 AM
14:38:54 <jsled> (though it should have compiled before that, too; I only break building from the repo unintentionally.)
14:39:15 <jsled> Oh. Hmm. I'll build clean to see if I can see it. The error would be appreciated.
14:40:14 <esodan> warlord: what happend if I can create a "backend" type for GDA? I mean, allow GDA to get/save data to the XML file format... Why? becouse I think we can do the same thing in an easy way using the GdaDataModel eanstead to try to use the feature-poor QofQuery and data handlers in QOF...
14:41:07 <twunder> -cal.Tpo -c gnc-dense-cal.c -fPIC -DPIC -o .libs/gnc-dense-cal.o
14:41:11 <twunder> gnc-dense-cal.c:171:1: error: "/*" within comment
14:41:15 <twunder> cc1: warnings being treated as errors
14:41:17 <jsled> Heh!
14:41:19 <twunder> gnc-dense-cal.c: In function 'gnc_dense_cal_init':
14:41:19 <twunder> gnc-dense-cal.c:314: warning: implicit declaration of function 'month_name'
14:41:19 <twunder> gnc-dense-cal.c:316: warning: passing argument 2 of 'gdk_string_extents' makes pointer from integer without a cast
14:41:19 <twunder> gnc-dense-cal.c: In function 'gnc_dense_cal_draw_to_buffer':
14:41:19 <twunder> gnc-dense-cal.c:816: warning: passing argument 6 of 'gdk_draw_string' makes pointer from integer without a cast
14:41:22 <twunder> make[5]: *** [gnc-dense-cal.lo] Error 1
14:41:57 <jsled> Pfft. I'm awesome.
14:42:04 <warlord> esodan: That's one approach to solving the "how would we read XML if we used GDA" problem, and I think jsled hinted at that.. But I still don't see the actual problem with QofQuery. I'd still like to see a real problem that needs to be solved.
14:44:39 <jsled> twunder: that (and another problem in gnome-utils/) are fixed in 15331.
14:44:57 * jsled has gotten lazy with fast whole-tree re-compilation.
14:45:12 <twunder> jsled: you're "awesome" ;)
14:49:30 <esodan> warlord: well think that QofQuery don't use an object oriented way to handle fields and conditions like GdaQuery (remember that Gda is based in GObject) then you can't get just the fields you need or add and remove conditions in an object oriented way...
14:50:38 <warlord> esodan: I still dont see the problem. The current usage is always "return the objects that match the query" and then you handle the list of objects as necessary.
14:52:18 <jsled> "not being object oriented" isn't really a problem in and of itself.
14:52:36 <warlord> right
14:54:54 <esodan> but an object oriented way easy to understand and maintainable, and could help to add more functionalities in a easy way (for example to create a new object), ... ....
14:55:10 <warlord> We already have that
14:55:30 <warlord> And I think QOF as it stands is already easy to understand and fairly maintainable.
14:55:48 <warlord> (although I agree that changing QOF to be based on GObject is a Good Thing)
14:58:10 <esodan> Yes but we need to adapt it to GObject, and the QOF way AFAIK must be re-written to be in sync with GObject's way... that's could be a great work... and some times or many could result in conflicts...
14:58:54 *** mnoir has joined #gnucash
14:59:28 <warlord> Well, obviously you can't just drop-in gobject, so yes, SOME work is involved. But it's not a major re-writing, I don't think.
14:59:52 <andi5> hm... is {lists,svn}.gnucash.org down?
15:00:11 <warlord> andi5: nope
15:00:12 <jsled> doens't appear to be.
15:00:33 <mnoir> while deleting some blank splits caused by a very enthusiastic Paypal download, I clicked a 'don't warn me any more' box. Now I cannot delete these blank splits. How do I reset the don't warn me anymore behavior?
15:00:42 <andi5> that is weird
15:00:50 <jsled> Edit > reset warnings, I think.
15:01:00 <esodan> Thats why I think to re-implement the engine using GDA's queries could help to have a fast development process (of course you need a GC XML backend for GDA to use the actual format)
15:02:25 <mnoir> jsled: that is prolly close - probably edit -> preferences->???->reset warnings but I cannot find the ???
15:02:27 <warlord> esodan: I think you're over-estimating the work required to make QOF based on GObject, and underesting the amount of work to use GDA.
15:02:49 <esodan> warlord: the time I had spent in studing QOF and create the plan to GObject, makes me fill that the process is realy dificult...
15:02:56 <andi5> svn.g.org does not like me anymore... connections time out
15:03:12 <jsled> mnoir: sorry. Actions > Reset Warnings.
15:03:19 <warlord> esodan: I still haven't read your document... (the fact that it's OOo instead of .txt had a lot to do with it).
15:03:33 <warlord> andi5: traceroute or mtr?
15:03:57 <mnoir> jsled: thanks - that's it!
15:04:06 <esodan> warlord: Do you want a copy in HTML or other (witch one?)
15:04:22 <warlord> TXT
15:04:45 <esodan> warlord: Ok, I'll try to send to the devel list...
15:04:52 <andi5> 11 225 ms 204 ms 204 ms cvs.gnucash.org [204.107.200.65] .. ping works
15:05:00 <warlord> How long IS it?
15:05:04 <jsled> warlord: you don't have open office installed?
15:05:30 <warlord> jsled: Oh, I have it installed, but I'm lazy when it comes to dealing with email.
15:05:36 <esodan> warlord: you'll miss most of the colors and tables I'd created to try to be clear in the comments...
15:05:46 <warlord> Grrrr...
15:05:51 <warlord> Fine, I'll go read the Ood
15:06:08 <esodan> Good!:)
15:06:09 <warlord> andi5: did you attempt to ssh and miss your password?
15:06:22 <andi5> firefox times out too
15:06:34 <andi5> oh, i do not enter passwords
15:06:45 <warlord> did you ssh and supply an incorrect username?
15:06:56 <warlord> what's your current (external) IP Address?
15:07:01 <andi5> no =) .... nothing changed... wt...
15:07:50 <esodan> warlord: I'll try compare GObject and QOF and where I found the conflicts and why...
15:08:04 <andi5> i would not complain, if i was not in a hurry ;-)
15:08:36 <warlord> This happened at Jan 9 14:51
15:08:55 <warlord> Ahh...
15:08:58 <andi5> what does that mean?
15:09:56 <andi5> i have not changed anything...
15:10:14 <warlord> Okay, you're unblocked again.
15:10:26 <andi5> yeah, thanks...
15:10:28 <warlord> Did you kill an ssh connection abruptly?
15:10:40 <andi5> yes---i think i did that
15:10:57 <andi5> that is a no-no?
15:11:09 <esodan> warlord: consider that GC need be in sync with GLib, and most of the datatypes, functions and so must be reimplemented in order to avoid any future conflicts with GLib
15:11:25 <warlord> andi5: yeah.
15:11:38 <andi5> ok, i am sorry for the trouble... will take care next time
15:11:38 <mnoir> when entering the account for a transaction, trying to specify a sub/sub/account, is there a way to autocomplete the name of the placeholder components? for instance, to quickly specify Expenses/Farm/Livestock/Chicken by typing ex(someonekey)fa(someonekey)li(someonekey)ch(someonekey)? The only wat I can do it that I have found is to type the whole word(s)
15:11:47 <jsled> mnoir: tab.
15:11:48 <warlord> it's something script-kiddies do, so the server is hardend against that.
15:11:48 <mnoir> wat=way
15:11:59 <jsled> mnoir: excuse me, not tab. The separator character.
15:12:10 <jsled> Usually ':'. So, Ex:fa:li:ca
15:12:15 <jsled> Er, s/ca/ch/
15:12:59 <jsled> esodan: future conflicts? reimplemented? which are you thinking of?
15:13:44 <warlord> esodan: yeah, you're not making any sense.
15:14:50 <mnoir> jsled: thanks again. what is the best doc for me to read to aviod imposing these questions? the help doc is not, uuh, helping :)
15:14:58 <esodan> jsled: I think is better to send the comparation beatween GObject and QOF...
15:15:20 <jsled> You know ... that came up on -user recently with the accel keys for the date widget. I don't know if they're well-documented, actually.
15:15:45 <jsled> Though they should (both) be in the Help.
15:16:40 <esodan> jsled: sorry, is just I don't want to work in some thing, and find that we could make the same with other tools more powerfull (well I think) and already in sync with GObject...
15:17:11 <warlord> "More powerful" does not imply "Better" or "more appropriate for the task at hand"
15:17:16 <mnoir> jsled: is this the wrong group for me? is there a gnucash-user group that would be a better forum? i do a lot of support in irq and i do not want to wast time - i usually expect #produce to be for users and #produce-dev or some such to be for developers
15:17:22 <jsled> Yeah .... Help/Contents, §3.3.2.1 #5.
15:17:55 <warlord> mnoir: nope, there's not a seperate channel.
15:17:56 <mnoir> produce-product
15:18:00 <mnoir> k
15:18:02 <jsled> no, this is the only irc channel, and we do user stuff in here.
15:18:03 <esodan> jsled: warlord: Could you take some time to consider a plan to use GDA inside the core with some examples? I could send it too...
15:19:09 <warlord> esodan: sorry, no. that's just not on the table for this decade.
15:20:06 <warlord> I realize that GDA is your hammer..
15:20:42 <warlord> And at first glance it may appear solve the problems gnucash is trying to get solved.
15:21:23 <warlord> but...... I'm not at all convinced that the problems that GDA solves are problems that NEEDS to be solved right now..
15:21:39 <warlord> er, s/NEEDS/NEED/
15:22:10 * andi5 does not do anything in irq ... you never know what may happen next...
15:23:03 <warlord> LOL
15:23:12 <warlord> andi5: all depends on whether you have NMI
15:23:16 <jsled> exactly.
15:23:21 <jsled> heh.
15:23:31 <andi5> is that something to eat?
15:23:52 <andi5> ok, i see
15:24:11 <esodan> Not right now, but may for 3.0 series with a powerfull engine, an OO API, actual XML support and DB support, all with out to rewrite the engine just use the actual backends in GDA (a lot already working)...
15:25:16 <esodan> "with out to rewrite the engine" (is when you want to use a new backend sopported by GDA)
15:25:20 <warlord> esodan: Maybe... But as I said that's a good 4-5 years off.
15:25:23 <warlord> (at least!)
15:25:24 <twunder> jsled: compile breaks at a differnt place now...
15:25:48 <jsled> twunder: ooh, good. Note that I still didn't do a full rebuild because I'm still awesome</sarcasm>.
15:25:57 <mnoir> i forgot to set an opening balance when i made an account - what is the cleanest way to set it now!
15:26:00 <esodan> warlord: As I sed, I realy want to start NOW...
15:26:12 <mnoir> !=?
15:26:28 <twunder> dialog-sx-since-last-run.c: In function 'gnc_sx_slr_tree_model_adapter_new':
15:26:32 <twunder> dialog-sx-since-last-run.c:782: error: 'gsslrtma_added_cb' undeclared (first use in this function)
15:26:32 <twunder> dialog-sx-since-last-run.c:782: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
15:26:32 <twunder> dialog-sx-since-last-run.c:782: error: for each function it appears in.)
15:26:32 <twunder> dialog-sx-since-last-run.c:784: error: 'gsslrtma_removing_cb' undeclared (first use in this function)
15:26:32 <twunder> make[5]: *** [dialog-sx-since-last-run.lo] Error 1
15:26:32 <andi5> mnoir: create a transaction from ... equity, i think
15:26:33 <twunder> make[5]: Leaving directory `/data/SVN/gnucash-sx/src/gnome'
15:26:36 <chris> esodan: Then start with making the engine objects use GObject.
15:26:47 <andi5> or opening balances... there must be something like that :)
15:27:08 <jsled> mnoir: Yeah. Equity:Opening Balances
15:27:11 <warlord> Wow, a "C" error that I don't understand!
15:27:12 <warlord> foo.h:66: error: expected ';', ',' or ')' before 'prefMap'
15:27:12 <warlord> and line 66 says:
15:27:12 <warlord> const FooPrefsMap[] prefMap,
15:27:12 <warlord> FooPrefsMap[] is defined earlier in the file.
15:27:20 <jsled> (that should really be a FAQ, as it's apparently not. :( )
15:27:39 <warlord> esodan: what chris said. Start with just making everything GObject without touching GDA.
15:27:47 <chris> esodan: Just to be clear, we're very aware that doing things in steps is more work than doing then all at once. Nevertheless, that's how it has to happen.
15:27:51 <warlord> Start by turning QOF* into GObject.
15:28:30 <andi5> warlord: that is not gnucash, right?
15:28:34 <warlord> andi5: no.
15:28:41 * foo bows to warlord
15:28:48 <warlord> Heh
15:28:56 <foo> It is an honor for you to name your code after me
15:28:57 <foo> :D
15:28:57 <andi5> foo: was it your pref map?
15:29:09 <foo> andi5: wha?
15:29:15 <foo> oh, no
15:29:16 <foo> hehe
15:29:22 <andi5> oook :)
15:29:28 <chris> esodan: When that step is _done_, we'll have a much clearer idea of what role libgda can play in engine.
15:29:33 <warlord> It seems to be complaining about the []
15:29:41 <esodan> chris: Ok, I could, but I leave QOF for now...
15:29:52 <andi5> yeah, that is the symbol for "character not in font" ;-)
15:30:43 <warlord> :-P
15:31:27 <warlord> esodan: you can't "leave QOF for now" -- you would need to change QOF so that it uses GObject, too. E.g. QOF_INSTANCE would be a GType
15:31:31 <esodan> chris: I can implement the engine objects using GObject and hide (as today) the QOF access (leaving it untouched)...
15:31:55 <warlord> What do you mean, "hide ... the QOF access"?
15:33:08 <warlord> andi5: the weird thing about this error is that if I change [] to * it goes away. I dont know why it doesn't like me specifying this as an array.
15:33:52 <jsled> twunder: fixed. \
15:34:15 <andi5> jsled is our compilation fix monster?
15:34:20 * twunder will reserve judgement on that ;)
15:34:32 <jsled> andi5: no, I just suck.
15:34:35 <andi5> lol
15:34:39 <jsled> andi5: by breaking the build in the first place. :(
15:34:51 <jsled> (though it is on branches/sx-cleanup/
15:34:52 <jsled> )
15:35:03 <esodan> warlord: well, for today the core use QOF with out GObject, then I can create methods in the engine that inside use the QOF API with out expose to the GUI or other parts in GC, then this "parts" could use the engine object's API to access, use the data, accounts and so... all this with out touch the QOF....
15:35:40 <warlord> Oh, duh.. because it needs to be const FooPrefsMap prefMap[]!
15:36:09 <andi5> oh yeah... it looked strange... but hey! :)
15:36:48 <andi5> warlord: did test-numeric.exe pass for you?
15:37:11 <warlord> andi5: sorry, I haven't tried.
15:37:17 <esodan> warlord: As I see the engine uses this already, then this isn't a dificult area...
15:37:18 <warlord> esodan: I don't understand.
15:37:45 <warlord> The QOF API is going to have to change, but the GnuCash API not necessarily.
15:38:24 <warlord> (and by "change" i mean that it wont be ABI compatible, but you could make it 'source' compatible..)
15:39:18 <esodan> sorry (again) for my bad english, I try to explain: I'll make the engine objects use GObject, with methods to access, save, or use data, accounts and so...
15:40:00 <warlord> esodan: But the best way to do that is to change QOF to use GObject.. Then all the engine objects get it for free!
15:40:27 <esodan> This methods will use QOF in his code... with out touch QOF...
15:40:31 <warlord> E.g., if QofInstance is based on GObject, then every engine object suddenly is based on GObject!
15:40:46 <warlord> But I think you SHOULD touch QOF.
15:40:57 <warlord> chris?
15:42:31 <esodan> (I'm reviewing my QOF->GObject Plant, please wait)
15:42:54 <warlord> okay
15:45:56 <esodan> I found that QofInstance and QofEntity have some features that must be merged to have a GObject, becouse the last allow you to have that features... then isn't directly...
15:46:04 <esodan> (reviewing again)
15:46:41 <chris> (I'm half here.)
15:47:34 <chris> Yes, QofInstance/QofEntity should become GObject-derived.
15:47:37 <warlord> esodan: QofInstance already depends on QofEntity, so there's not much that needs to be merged there.
15:48:08 <warlord> in this context "depends on" == "is derived from"
15:48:28 *** andi5 has quit IRC
15:49:34 <esodan> mmm... Add QofClass to the list... it must be splited to fit a GObjectClass and some functionalities move to the GObject implementation...
15:49:39 <chris> esodan: I don't think you need to "wrap" existing QOF methods. Start simple - just implement the inheritance hierarchy, with (almost?) no method changes.
15:51:21 <esodan> (mmmm... seeing the GC code, just a moment)
15:51:41 <chris> QofClass and QofParam can be completely replaced by existing GObject functionality.
15:51:47 <warlord> esodan: QofClass is sort of a misnomer. Yes, it's more like a GObjectClass and not a GObject
15:52:00 <warlord> and... what chris just said.
15:56:07 <esodan> I don't think I realy need to touch QOF, becouse QOF is only or almost used just in the engine, then I can export a GObject oriented API from the objects in the engine and hide the QOF API, you realy don't need to use QOF outside the engine...
15:57:17 <warlord> esodan: not true. we we QOF extensively. e.g. QofQuery, QofParam, etc.
15:57:26 <warlord> those are used EVERYWHERE.
15:59:33 <esodan> QofQuery, QofParam, etc outside, but could be "wrapped" by methods in the engine, becouse QofQuery for example get data results, then a method in the engine could do the same task... using inside QofQuery ofcourse...
16:00:44 <warlord> I think I'd need to see pseudocode to understand what you mean here.
16:01:41 <esodan> well I'll create a plan with pseudocode to explain better... wait in the list...
16:01:46 <warlord> I think it would be easier to keep the same API but just change the underlying implementation.
16:01:59 <chris> QofQuery is a different beast. Its own internal methods will have to adapt to the GObject implementation.
16:02:16 <chris> But think first of the "normal" engine objects, like Account.
16:02:26 <warlord> chris: true, but the external API doesn't really need to change much.
16:02:37 <jsled> Or Transaction.c
16:04:22 <esodan> QofQuery could be there becouse it use QOF Inside, Transactions, Accounts, could be GObjects and hide in his methods the use of QOF...
16:04:24 <chris> esodan: If you're saying that you want to implement the GObject hierarchy from-scratch in new files instead of converting the existing Qof objects to GObjects, that's one possible approach.
16:05:21 <chris> esodan: when you say "the use of QOF" there's really nothing there except A) the stuff that GObject provides and B) QofQuery.
16:05:53 <esodan> Yes, this hierarchy will be concentrated in the engine objects not QOF that is a great work and hours to reimplement (or understand the GObject equivalent)...
16:07:39 <warlord> chris: well, there's "the stuff that GObject provides", "GUIDs and object containers", and then "QofQuery"
16:07:43 <esodan> If I understand, yes the stuff the GObject will provide could use QOF Inside the code with out expose, and QofQuery will be *as is*...
16:08:22 <chris> Personally, I think it would be easier to convert the QofInstance/QofEntity directly to GObjects.
16:08:27 <warlord> So the engine objects would use both QOF /AND/ GObjects??
16:08:31 <chris> (in-place)
16:08:34 <warlord> I'm with chris here.
16:08:36 <esodan> The GUIDs and containers will be as is...
16:09:15 <chris> yeah, best leave the GUIDs and containers as they are.
16:09:29 <esodan> warlord: Yes, the engine objects will be GObjects and inside use QOF...
16:10:21 <warlord> esodan: what do you mean "inside"?
16:10:59 <warlord> The way I see it: QofEntity -> GObject + GUID and then everything just derives from there.
16:11:08 <warlord> quick and painless.
16:11:13 <esodan> But converting QofInstance and QofEntity in GObject is a beast dificult to fit in GObject becouse most of GObject infraestructure are implemented in QOF and isn't easy to merge...
16:11:17 <jsled> esodan: when you say "inside", do you mean their methods -- like xaccTransClone, for instance -- will somehow still use QOF?
16:11:50 <warlord> esodan: I dont understand why you think it would be difficult to convert QofInstance/Entity to GObject.
16:12:55 <esodan> For example: gnc_transaction_clone, this is a GncTransaction object that performs the "clone" method... this method use QOF inside to access the data in GC...
16:13:06 <chris> esodan: I don't think it's so difficult, and the covnersion from qof-provided functionality to gobject-provided functionality can be incremental.
16:13:27 <esodan> warlord: see my plan, and please wait for my comparation beatween GObject and QOF...
16:13:45 <twunder> jsled: make completed without error, make install is running :)
16:13:46 <warlord> ==chris
16:15:10 <esodan> Why don't do the conversion of engine objects to GObject, and then QOF, you will see the diference is far easy and realy less time...
16:15:37 <esodan> (I have to leave, see you later)...
16:16:17 <jsled> esodan: take care. I hope your mail to -devel will focus on specific classes/methods and how you'll convert them.
16:16:42 <jsled> I think concrete discussion -- especially with the language barrier -- is the only way to go.
16:17:55 <warlord> thanks, esodan
16:18:09 <warlord> and yea, I think a concrete discussion is important, too, ==jsled.
16:19:31 <twunder> jsled: make install finished without error, too :)
16:21:11 *** esodan has quit IRC
16:21:13 <warlord> twunder: but did we take a charge? ;)
16:25:54 <twunder> warlord: ???
16:26:19 <warlord> nevermind.. it's a line from Real Genius.
17:00:44 *** twunder has quit IRC
17:02:39 *** motin has joined #gnucash
17:14:15 <chris> [OT] I thought that gnucash took a long time to build. mozilla is worse.
17:15:03 <warlord> I'm sure that OOo is just as bad.
17:16:49 <warlord> see ya
17:16:52 *** warlord is now known as warlord-afk
17:20:19 <jsled> I think open office is worse, actually. I still rebuild moz regularly, but not openoffice.
17:21:12 *** acarrico has joined #gnucash
17:21:43 <acarrico> Anyway to print (filtered) general ledger?
17:22:15 <jsled> hey acarrico.
17:22:27 <acarrico> Hey.
17:22:36 <acarrico> Your jabber is messed up.
17:22:43 <jsled> acarrico: yeah. :(
17:23:05 <jsled> acarrico: I should really try to fix it this weekend. Stupid ejabberd. :/
17:23:49 <acarrico> Seems like creating a transaction report would do it, but I can't make "transaction report" look like general ledger.
17:27:33 <jsled> acarrico: you're looking for the transaction/split formatting?
17:28:53 <acarrico> Yes. In a transaction report, each split seems like a different transaction, whereas in the general ledger, they are together.
17:29:11 <jsled> *sigh*
17:29:19 <jsled> In the General tab, you can change hte style to Multi-Line,
17:29:44 <jsled> then, in the Display tab, you enable "Other Account Name", but...
17:29:48 <acarrico> Is this an FAQ?
17:29:54 <jsled> It still fscking lists Split transactions as "Split".
17:30:22 <jsled> No, I don't think it is. The "*sigh*" is because it doesn't work. :/
17:32:07 <jsled> Grr. There's also the "General Ledger" report in Assets & Liabilities, but it doesn't work in exactly the same way.
17:32:24 <jsled> Oh, but there's the General Journal report in Assets & Liabilities.
17:32:33 <jsled> And it seems to work alright.
17:33:01 <jsled> Except, you can't seem to change the date range, which is annoying.
17:33:31 <acarrico> Transaction report is looking better with multiline. Amounts aren't in debit/credit columns though.
17:38:02 <jsled> acarrico: Also, you can select Reports > Account Report from the General Ledger window to get something which might work.
17:39:26 <acarrico> The Assets & Liabilities/General Ledger report may be reasonable.
17:40:22 <acarrico> Seems like the Debit Credit columns are messed up for some transactions (both splits in Debit).
17:40:46 <acarrico> The appear correct in the actual general ledger.
17:42:32 <acarrico> "Reports > Account Report from the General Ledger window" <- That is very good, except that it includes bogus running balance.
17:42:48 *** ErKa has joined #gnucash
17:42:55 <jsled> This is awesome. 5 ways to do it, and they all suck.
17:43:16 <jsled> The running balance can be turned off on Display
17:44:32 <acarrico> Right. OK That is it!
17:44:44 <acarrico> Good job Josh.
17:47:18 <acarrico> In this case it would be nice if I could show the account code too, but it looks like this report doesn't have that option.
17:47:58 <jsled> look like not, indeed.
17:47:59 <acarrico> I'm sure that reports are hard.
17:48:17 <jsled> Oh, but it's scheme. You can fix it, I'm sure. :)
17:48:33 <acarrico> That is probably true.
17:49:05 <acarrico> The design problem exists in any language.
17:54:59 *** rapha has quit IRC
18:23:06 *** minDscrm has quit IRC
18:51:40 *** ErKa has quit IRC
18:51:49 *** jpeach has joined #gnucash
18:51:54 *** jpeach has left #gnucash
18:54:08 *** sjc has joined #gnucash
18:59:35 *** Demitar_ is now known as Demitar
19:06:37 *** gncbot` has joined #gnucash
19:08:37 *** BC^bd has joined #gnucash
19:08:48 *** elb_ has joined #gnucash
19:13:12 *** Demitar has quit IRC
19:13:12 *** |gunni| has quit IRC
19:13:12 *** warlord-afk has quit IRC
19:13:12 *** Rolf has quit IRC
19:13:12 *** piku has quit IRC
19:13:12 *** cortana has quit IRC
19:13:12 *** elb has quit IRC
19:13:12 *** mr-rich has quit IRC
19:13:12 *** BC-bd has quit IRC
19:13:12 *** gncbot has quit IRC
19:13:12 *** dwery has quit IRC
19:13:12 *** chris has quit IRC
19:17:39 *** mr-rich has joined #gnucash
19:17:42 *** piku has joined #gnucash
19:17:46 *** warlord-afk has joined #gnucash
19:18:43 *** Demitar has joined #gnucash
19:18:49 *** cortana has joined #gnucash
19:20:31 *** chris has joined #gnucash
19:21:18 *** dwery has joined #gnucash
19:23:27 *** acarrico has left #gnucash
19:42:13 <chris> @op
19:42:13 <gncbot`> chris: Error: I need to be opped to op someone.
19:42:30 <chris> oh well fine! Be that way.
19:43:22 *** esodan has joined #gnucash
19:50:39 *** tats has joined #gnucash
19:56:37 *** sjc_ has joined #gnucash
20:01:39 *** sjc has quit IRC
20:03:00 <jsled> gncbot`: @nick gncbot
20:03:00 <gncbot`> jsled: Error: "@nick" is not a valid command.
20:03:08 <jsled> @quit
20:03:41 *** gncbot has joined #gnucash
20:03:50 *** jsled sets mode: +o gncbot
20:03:51 <jsled> @op chris
20:03:52 *** gncbot sets mode: +o chris
20:04:04 <jsled> @op warlord-afk
20:04:05 *** gncbot sets mode: +o warlord-afk
20:40:34 *** MacGyver has quit IRC
21:12:36 *** MacGyver has joined #gnucash
21:16:26 *** mnoir has quit IRC
21:18:48 *** sjc_ has quit IRC
21:37:39 *** MacGyver has quit IRC
21:42:56 *** tats has quit IRC
21:47:58 *** twunder has joined #gnucash
22:04:04 *** Demitar_ has joined #gnucash
22:04:34 *** Demitar__ has joined #gnucash
22:09:10 *** benoitg has joined #gnucash
22:13:06 *** Demitar has quit IRC
22:14:12 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
22:16:48 <mishehu> ugh this slib guile thing is being a real big pain.
22:17:37 <mishehu> I tried slib from 2d6 to 3a4, and the only one that could even generate the slibcat with guile 1.6.8 was 2d6. but g-wrap 1.9.6 fails to load in guile 1.6.8...
22:17:39 <warlord> @op benoitg
22:17:40 *** gncbot sets mode: +o benoitg
22:18:10 <warlord> mishehu: fails how? Works fine for most everyone else.
22:18:14 <warlord> (3a3 also works)
22:18:31 <mishehu> and with guile 1.8.1, I can get slib 3a1 to initialize the slibcat file.
22:18:46 <mishehu> nah, can't get 3a3 to work eitiher. there's always some goofy error.
22:19:10 <mishehu> although maybe I forgot to blast the slibcat file when I installed 3a3
22:19:12 <mishehu> let me try again
22:19:41 *** Demitar__ has quit IRC
22:19:52 <warlord> "goofy error" isn't very descriptive.
22:20:00 <mishehu> ERROR: Unbound variable: with-load-pathname
22:20:10 *** Demitar has joined #gnucash
22:20:10 <warlord> From 3a3? I disbelieve.
22:20:15 <mishehu> serious.
22:20:18 <warlord> (although I wouldn't recommend guile 1.8.x)
22:20:30 <mishehu> I know, I've b een trying various combinations
22:20:34 <warlord> Oh, I belive you are serious... I just disbelive the error.
22:20:39 <mishehu> here, Ii'll give you the 3a3 error on 1.6.8
22:20:55 <warlord> 1.6.8, 2d6 or 3a3, and either 1.3.4 or 1.9.6 depending on your version of gcc.
22:21:21 <mishehu> ERROR: In procedure open-file:
22:21:21 <mishehu> ERROR: No such file or directory: "/usr/share/guile/1.6/slib/require"
22:21:53 <mishehu> that's slib 3a3 guile 1.6.8
22:22:58 <warlord> Did you run gnucash as root?
22:23:47 <mishehu> nope, and how would I be able to run gnucash if I can't even run /usr/bin/guile -c "(use-modules (ice-9 slib)) (require 'new-catalog)" to generate the slibcat file?
22:24:11 <warlord> Why would you try to run that by hand?
22:24:22 <mishehu> it says you have to
22:24:27 <warlord> "it"?
22:24:30 <mishehu> in the docs of slib
22:24:36 <warlord> Oh, silly silly boy!
22:24:42 <warlord> ignore that.
22:24:47 <warlord> first, where did you install slib?
22:24:57 <mishehu> it's in /usr/share/guile/site
22:25:00 <warlord> did you put it into /usr/share/guile/1.6/slib?
22:25:04 <mishehu> a subdir named "slib"
22:25:15 <warlord> well that's wrong. Why did you put it there?
22:25:36 <mishehu> g-wrap put itself in there, thought that was just site-related and not guile version related.
22:26:08 <warlord> but you need slib before g-wrap, so how would/should you know where g-wrap installs itself?
22:26:21 <warlord> Never mind.
22:26:23 <mishehu> the first time I dumped in in 1.8/
22:26:25 <warlord> You're thinking too hard.
22:26:29 <warlord> Stop doing that.
22:26:33 <warlord> rm -rf and start over
22:26:36 <warlord> install guile 1.6.8
22:26:44 <mishehu> I
22:26:46 <warlord> install slib into /usr/share/guile/1.6/slib
22:26:49 <mishehu> bah.
22:26:50 <warlord> install g-wrap
22:26:53 <mishehu> already done.
22:26:54 <warlord> install gnucash
22:26:59 <warlord> run gnucash as root
22:27:04 <warlord> (once)
22:27:19 *** benoitg has left #gnucash
22:28:03 <mishehu> warlord: what's the diff in guile between the /usr/share/guile/1.x and /usr/share/guile/site ?
22:28:09 <mishehu> just for my knowledge...
22:28:29 <warlord> I dont know. I dont care. But it's where slib expects to find itself.
22:28:36 <mishehu> ok
22:28:52 <mishehu> that's a good enough answer for me. just thought there was some rhyme or reason.
22:29:00 <elb_> normally site/ is for locally installed extensions, and version/ is for "system" extensions
22:29:04 <elb_> gauging by perl, emacs, etc.
22:29:35 <mishehu> ah
22:29:55 <mishehu> that was sort of what I've been thinking since he told me to dump it in.
22:29:57 <mishehu> ERROR: no code for module (srfi srfi-34)
22:30:12 <mishehu> does that mean I should rebuild g-wrap?
22:31:12 <warlord> mishehu: Did you do what I just said just now, starting from the "rm -rf"?
22:31:57 <mishehu> warlord: I did that for slib
22:32:11 <mishehu> reinstalled it to /usr/share/guile/1.6
22:33:12 <warlord> And then did you build g-wrao?
22:33:43 *** twunder has quit IRC
22:34:06 <warlord> mishehu: please don't second-guess what I'm telling you to do. I am NOT first-line tech-support.
22:34:18 <mishehu> I'm rebuilding it now.
22:34:26 <warlord> okay
22:38:21 <mishehu> chug a chug a chug a chug a choo choo.
22:38:29 <mishehu> compiling gnucash...
22:38:56 <mishehu> (lib mismatch thanks to the patch you guys (I think jsled did) for fixing g-wrap to use glib-2.0)
22:39:22 <warlord> ??
22:41:06 <mishehu> that's why I'm rebuild gnucash.
22:41:34 <warlord> yeah
22:41:36 <mishehu> it might get away with a symlink, but I figured why cause more headache... it only takes a couple minutes to rebuild.
22:42:00 <mishehu> it's a big program nontheless ;-)
22:42:08 <warlord> yep
22:42:19 <mishehu> I saw the new splash screen. already looks nicer.
22:43:11 * mishehu whistles while the computer works.
22:43:42 <mishehu> btw, I wasn't second guessing you, my mind was stuck on slib so when you told me to rm -rf I like a robot only did slib.
22:44:18 <mishehu> I still owe you a beer next time you pass thru chicago
22:44:34 <warlord> I'll be there in july
22:44:57 <mishehu> aw, you don't want to come and freeze your ass off in the winter? january's the best!
22:45:02 <mishehu> </sarcasm>
22:45:08 <warlord> :-P
22:45:29 <elb_> yeah, it's only like 40 right now ;-)
22:45:40 <elb_> at least, unless it's a lot colder tahn it is here in northern indiana
22:45:52 <mishehu> it dropped today
22:45:59 <elb_> although I got a kick out of accuweather today ... it said "cooler and breezy", and "17mph winds"
22:46:00 <mishehu> I had to get out the down coat.
22:46:09 <elb_> that's right, 17mph winds are "breezy" here in the corn fields
22:46:17 * mishehu is glad to not live in the snowbelt of northern indiana
22:46:44 <elb_> I'm just south enough to mostly miss the nasty edge of lake effect (W. Lafayette)
22:47:04 <mishehu> hmm I guess that make can't build more than one source file at a time, because I'm only at half load on my dual core...
22:47:28 <elb_> use 'make -j2' or -j3
22:47:47 <warlord> I /think/ gnucash works with that now...
22:47:48 <mishehu> lafayette's nice, though small. but once you step off of lafayette, it's pigshitfertilizerville
22:47:53 <warlord> (for a long time it didn't)
22:48:14 <elb_> lafayette is larger than I care for
22:48:19 <elb_> I prefer it over here on the west side ;-)
22:48:23 * mishehu 's brain needs to be wrung out, the sponge is full.
22:48:45 <warlord> as for why july -- that's when the IETF comes to Chicago.
22:49:03 <warlord> I'll be there a week.. (unless my friends and family there convince to me have a longer stay)
22:49:23 <mishehu> well, doing make install now.
22:49:25 <elb_> oh really?
22:49:29 <elb_> I might make IETF, then
22:49:38 <warlord> LOLO
22:49:41 <warlord> LOL even
22:49:42 <elb_> though I don't have anything in the pipeline right now
22:49:44 <mishehu> warlord: not into voice over ip are you?
22:49:58 <mishehu> we'll be having a convention around late june here in chicago as well.
22:50:03 <elb_> everything is either last-call or not yet interesting
22:50:16 <warlord> define "into".
22:50:30 <warlord> It's not my field of employment, but I've done SOME work on VoIP.
22:50:37 <warlord> (and I run an asterisk server at home)
22:50:54 <mishehu> warlord: interested in, either on the business side, the development side, or the implementation side
22:51:11 <mishehu> we get people who give presentations on all subjects.
22:51:19 <mishehu> I gave one last year on the development side.
22:51:40 <warlord> umm... on the security-of side
22:52:00 <mishehu> that could fall into either dev or implementation ;-)
22:52:13 <warlord> true
22:52:22 <warlord> security gets its fingers into everything
22:52:36 <mishehu> we have in the past had folks from sangoma, freeswitch dev team (of which I am a part of), asterisk, digium, bayonne, etc.
22:52:43 <mishehu> give presentations
22:52:46 <elb_> the rfc-editor says I have zero I-Ds
22:52:48 <elb_> that can't be right
22:53:16 <warlord> Awww.. no IDs?
22:53:21 <elb_> I'm looking at one right now
22:53:40 * elb_ is perplexed
22:55:41 <mishehu> CHA CHING
22:55:54 *** MacGyver has joined #gnucash
22:56:43 <mishehu> o/` money, get away... get a good job with more pay and you're ooooooo-kay... o/`
22:57:02 <warlord> Heh
22:57:20 <mishehu> now to make a backup copy of my current data files...
22:57:35 <mishehu> just in case I manage to make that implode.
22:58:58 <warlord> I would suggest you copy your data files, ~/.gnucash dir, and ~/.gnome dir.
23:01:52 <mishehu> damn, never realized I had so many log/xac files piling up there
23:01:54 <mishehu> heh.
23:02:06 <warlord> heh
23:02:39 <mishehu> I'll need to consult the wiki to find out what to do with them ;-)
23:03:32 <mishehu> 309mb worth of data + log + xac files... compresses with bzip2 to 25 mb. ;-)
23:04:01 <warlord> erase them
23:05:52 <mishehu> will probably bz2 them up separately and keep them around.
23:06:06 <warlord> sure
23:08:39 <mishehu> hmm weird, it can't seem to obtain a lock (the data is on CIFS)
23:09:40 <mishehu> I certainly have rw permissions on the dir, as I created files on it. does 2.0.x still create a file named "data.file.LCK" as the lock file?
23:10:06 <warlord> Yes
23:10:17 <mishehu> hmm I wonder why it's failing to create that then.
23:10:19 <warlord> And it's quite possible there's still problems on CIFS
23:10:47 <mishehu> are you referring to a bug in CIFS or a bug in how gnucash works on CIFS ?
23:11:06 <warlord> Unclear.
23:12:11 <mishehu> let me see what strace brings up.
23:16:40 <mishehu> hmm when I open up a file locally, though it doesn't fail I do see an error with teh lock file in the strace - 12980 open("/work/gnucash/testing.gnucash.LCK", O_RDONLY) = -1 EACCES (Permission denied)
23:23:28 <warlord> I think I'd need to see more context.
23:24:21 <mishehu> oddly enough, I don't see any errors with accessing the file on the CIFS share.
23:24:34 <mishehu> I see it link the .LCK file and a .LNK file, no errors.
23:24:45 <warlord> Huh.
23:26:13 <mishehu> in teh strace, I see where the system creates (link()) the test.gnucash.LCK file successfully, and as well there's a .LNK file it creates too.
23:27:49 <mishehu> err sorry, the open() system call.
23:28:11 <mishehu> 12980 open("/cifsshare/gnucash-data/test.gnucash.LCK", O_RDWR|O_CREAT|O_EXCL, 0) = 15
23:29:25 *** contactium has joined #gnucash
23:30:22 <contactium> hello all
23:30:56 <warlord> That's a success.
23:34:47 <contactium> I installed gnucash on gNewSense (light and free Ubuntu), but I do not know how the French version. Is what there is a file of translation added?
23:35:40 <warlord> contactium: LANG=fr gnucash
23:35:49 <mishehu> warlord: time to enable vfs ext_audit on samba, maybe I can see what the server sees.
23:36:12 <warlord> mishehu: good luck. i'm heading to bed soon
23:36:34 <mishehu> warlord: thanks for your help thus far.
23:36:41 <warlord> you're welcome.
23:38:59 <mishehu> [2007/01/09 22:38:01, 1] modules/vfs_extd_audit.c:audit_chmod_acl(309)
23:39:17 <mishehu> vfs_extd_audit: chmod_acl cifsshare/test.gnucash.7f0100.13013.LNK mode 0x1b4 failed: Function not implemented
23:39:29 <mishehu> that's where it's failing.
23:39:46 <contactium> warlord : if I launch the order lang=fr gnucash in a terminal I still have in English
23:39:47 <mishehu> what does gnucash do to the modes on the .LNK file?
23:40:24 <mishehu> LANG
23:40:29 <mishehu> it's case sensitive.
23:41:28 <contactium> sorry, if I launch the order LANG=fr gnucash in a terminal I still have in English
23:42:25 <warlord> contactium: Um, try LANG=fr LANGUAGE=fr gnucash
23:44:18 <warlord> mishehu: I think it tries to set the mode 000... Maybe..
23:44:55 <contactium> warlord : Not, always in English. Perhaps I miss the file of translation?
23:46:05 <warlord> contactium: po/fr.po
23:46:14 <warlord> did you not do a full gnucash installation?
23:46:21 <warlord> "make install" should install the translations..
23:47:19 <contactium> I installed with synaptic (apt-get) version 1.8
23:47:57 <contactium> I check pop/fr.po
23:47:58 <warlord> contactium: try fr_FR instead of just fr. When I just use 'fr' I get:
23:47:58 <warlord> (gnucash:19124): Gtk-WARNING **: Locale not supported by C library.
23:47:58 <warlord> Using the fallback 'C' locale.
23:56:26 <contactium> warlord : Yes I have the message: Gdk-WARNING **: locale not supported by C library
23:56:41 <warlord> contactium: with fr or fr_FR?
23:57:17 <contactium> with fr
23:57:36 <contactium> I try with fr_FR
23:58:28 <contactium> And with fr_FR