2007-01-05 GnuCash IRC logs

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00:15:43 <foo> jsled: around?
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09:35:10 <markvandenborre> are my accounts easy to transfer from gnucash 1.x to gnucash 2.x?
09:35:56 <markvandenborre> I'd love to be able to use gnucash 2 on ubuntu dapper, but I don't like the prospects of beta testing stuff
09:36:19 <markvandenborre> so if I want to use it, I'm stuck with 1.8.x
09:36:41 <markvandenborre> until the next long term support ubuntu release comes out
09:37:00 <markvandenborre> will I be able to transfer my accounts to 2.x without any problem?
09:40:34 <cstim> yes
09:46:31 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
09:48:15 <markvandenborre> cstim, thx
09:52:02 <jsled> markvandenborre: We did a whole beta series of 1.9.x's; 2.0 is a stable release.
09:52:32 <markvandenborre> jsled, I know, I'm talking about the availability of packages
09:53:14 <jsled> markvandenborre: ah.
09:53:41 <cstim> did you see http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393055 ? The reporter claims that aqbanking isn't installed, but the gnucash package has hbci available anyway. That means the packager has screwed up the gnucash rpm dependencies. Royally.
09:54:07 <markvandenborre> ubuntu 6.06 LTS doesn't have 2.0 pacakges
09:54:31 <warlord> markvandenborre: true, but 6.10 does.
09:54:48 <warlord> markvandenborre: and I believe that there's some site that has backports.
09:56:09 <markvandenborre> I can grab them from a forum somewhere, but I don't feel like doing that
09:58:12 <markvandenborre> not for financial software anyway
09:59:00 * warlord shrugs.
09:59:13 <warlord> Then it sounds like we're at the end of the conversation. Hope you have a good day!
10:00:20 <cstim> Does anyone here have Fedora Core 6 available? Can you tell me whether its gnucash package has a requirement on aqbanking/libaqbanking?
10:01:37 <warlord> cstim: checking...
10:01:44 <jsled> markvandenborre: The 1.8 data file is openable under 2.0 directly; if you're not using any new-in-2.0 features, the resulting file is openable in 1.8, as well.
10:02:29 <jsled> markvandenborre: I can't imagine that 2.(x>0) would not be able to open a 1.8 datafile.
10:02:45 <jsled> markvandenborre: Do you know when the next LTS version is supposed to arrive?
10:03:22 <markvandenborre> october
10:05:01 <markvandenborre> jsled, warlord , btw, I've seen v2.0 in action
10:05:13 <warlord> cstim: yum install gnucash does pull in aqbanking
10:05:13 <markvandenborre> and it looks really good
10:05:51 <markvandenborre> I think it's appropriate for me to say thank you here for the great job you are doing
10:09:17 <jsled> markvandenborre: thanks.
10:09:44 <markvandenborre> bye, and a happy 2k7!
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10:09:54 <cstim> warlord: same for opensuse10.2: the gnucash rpm lists libaqbanking.so.16 correctly as requirement.
10:10:31 <warlord> Well, the yum database certainly does, which implies the rpm does..
10:11:25 <cstim> then either the user's answer in bugzilla was wrong, or this user (and many others) have forced yum/rpm to ignore that dependency. Both would seem rather weird.
10:14:06 <cstim> probably the user's answer was wrong. If gnucash tries to load libgncmod-hbci but libaqbanking is not there, then dlopen() should fail and this module cannot be loaded in the first place. Isn't this how dlopen() works if the module's library dependencies are not fulfilled?
10:14:56 <warlord> Yes
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10:22:04 <chris> @tell andi5 I had started a merge of post-swig trunk into register-rewrite. I'll see if I can finish that process this morning.
10:22:04 <gncbot> chris: The operation succeeded.
10:32:52 <cstim> @seen benoitg
10:32:52 <gncbot> cstim: benoitg was last seen in #gnucash 3 weeks, 6 days, 23 hours, 21 minutes, and 5 seconds ago: <benoitg> warlord: Whenever, thanks
10:35:30 <cstim> @tell benoitg Do you think you could make a new libofx release, 0.8.3? The commit http://libofx.cvs.sourceforge.net/libofx/libofx/lib/ofx_preproc.cpp?revision=1.16&view=markup indeed fixes a crash. This crash has been reported several times for gnucash by now, but it can really only be fixed by that change in libofx.
10:35:30 <gncbot> cstim: The operation succeeded.
10:36:01 * cstim could write an email as well...
10:36:19 <jsled> given he's not been here in 4 weeks, that might be adviseable.
10:36:23 <warlord> I dont understand why this guy can't run with trunk.
10:36:33 <warlord> cstim: yeah, send an email.
10:36:35 <jsled> advisable, too.
10:36:45 <cstim> warlord: who?
10:37:13 <warlord> Kevin Kleinfelter
10:37:21 <jsled> cstim: on -user.
10:37:28 <jsled> cstim: which you should be on. :)
10:38:30 <cstim> thanks.
10:38:50 <cstim> jsled: no, I'm already spending way way too much time on gnucash that I should spend on my PhD thesis instead.
10:39:01 <cstim> jsled: gnucash-de has enough traffic so far.
10:39:10 <cstim> which you should not be on :-)
10:40:10 <jsled> heh.
10:40:47 <warlord> Heh.
10:40:56 <warlord> jsled: I think it's fair that he's on -de and not on -user.
10:42:30 <cstim> but re swig on trunk: I clearly recall I had to upgrade SWIG before I was able to compile trunk again. So the configure check clearly worked iff I have a too old swig installed.
10:59:49 <warlord> cstim: that's what I remember, too. I have NO IDEA why configure isn't working.
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11:04:51 <cstim> hi andi5
11:04:56 <andi5> hiho
11:07:01 <warlord> Well, at least trunk works for him.
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11:15:03 <scyrma> accounting question : is a "line of credit" bank account a "bank account" or a "credit card account" in gnucash ?
11:16:01 <warlord> I would consider it a Liability or CC.
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11:29:58 <andi5> warlord: i am sorry, gnc-business-ledger is indeed no module, will revert back.... what about the following:
11:29:58 <andi5> (a) move gnc-business-ledger to $prefix/lib, because it is a library (neigher libtool nor gnc module)
11:29:58 <andi5> (b) rename gnc-backend-file to gncmod-backend-file ; move gncmod-backend-file (not -utils) and gncqof-backend-qsf to $prefix/lib/gnucash (both libtool and gnc modules)
11:29:58 <andi5> (c) compile all gnc modules with "-avoid-version" ... this _should_ (will need to test) enable us not to ship *.la files with the .exe... btw, it seems that at least all libtool modules (-module) are gnc modules---i will not change any -module parameter now
11:30:00 <andi5> (d) not build src/test-core with -module, why should it?
11:31:45 <warlord> a, b, and d are fine. c is probably okay but I dont know what it means.
11:33:55 <warlord> andi5: There are probably other libraries that are built as 'libgncmod-...' that really shouln't be.
11:33:57 <andi5> http://www.gnu.org/software/libtool/manual.html#Link-mode documents it... before: libgncmod-app-utils-0.dll, after: libgncmod-app-utils.dll.... but i will only make the change if that helps to drop .la on windows
11:34:18 <andi5> ok, will take a look
11:34:42 <warlord> I think libtool will always make a .la, and automake will always install it..
11:34:57 <warlord> But yeah, we should definitely make the code so we don't need the .la files installed.
11:35:18 <scyrma> warlord, thanks
11:36:53 <warlord> scyrma: you're welcome
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11:47:09 <andi5> (e) cosmetic change: business-{core,gnome} use businessmod-{core,gnome} instead of gncmod-business-{core,gnome}...
11:50:38 <warlord> That can get changed
11:50:48 <andi5> (f) do we make use of src/import-export/qif or is it ready for DIST_SUBDIRS? .... hmmmm
11:52:31 <warlord> nope, src/import-export/qif isn't built, because it's not used.. it was my incomplete qif-import rewrite.
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11:53:33 <warlord> (we dont use qif-io-core either)
11:53:57 <andi5> yes, but where did you disable qif?
11:54:16 <andi5> (the tests are disable, as far as i can see)
11:55:12 <warlord> Sorry, it's not disabled.. But it's not used.
11:55:13 <andi5> hm... no, my Makefile says something different... do not mind
11:55:21 <warlord> (qif)
11:55:33 <andi5> oh... i was to eager finding my mistake ;)
11:55:39 <warlord> heh
11:55:58 <andi5> so (f) disable building it?
11:56:04 <warlord> Nah.
11:56:09 <andi5> hehe :)
11:58:34 * andi5 first needs git on windows
11:58:46 <warlord> Are you really liking git?
11:58:53 <andi5> i _love_ it
11:59:35 <andi5> i am a newbie, but really enjoy what i can do with it (already)
12:00:05 <warlord> Huh.
12:01:06 <andi5> merging branches for svn is non-trivial, but i guess this will improve someday
12:03:02 <warlord> svk makes branch merging trivial.. (modulo having to manually deal with conflicts)
12:05:43 <andi5> the same holds for git.... it is only git-svn that is confused about the merge and all these new commits it wants to push itself now ;)
12:06:35 <warlord> Oh. :(
12:07:13 <andi5> the merge commit has two parents, both heads that got merged, along with all their predecessors (history).... git-svn now determines the symmetric difference (git-diff-tree, i think) between the new head (merge commit) and old branch head, which contains the commits of, say trun
12:07:14 <andi5> k
12:08:47 <andi5> but this sounds like a bug to me, maybe it is fixed already ;)
12:10:16 <chris> hi andi5
12:10:24 <andi5> hiho chris :)
12:10:45 <chris> I love git, too, but when I last tried using it w/ gnucash git-svn was rather immature.
12:11:01 <chris> that must've been over a year ago.
12:11:14 <andi5> well... git is like.... 20 months or so?
12:11:30 <chris> when I get back into serious gnucash development, I'll try again.
12:11:58 <chris> sounds about right.
12:12:07 <andi5> how are you? what have you been doing? :)
12:14:10 <chris> I just smoke-tested a merge of post-swig trunk into register-rewrite. It passed.
12:15:38 <andi5> chris: what is post-swig?
12:16:03 <chris> Looking at the current-state of register-rewrite should be quite inspiring, IMO.
12:16:35 <chris> I jsut mean trunk at a point after the merge of the swig branch.
12:16:36 <andi5> hehe :)
12:17:26 <chris> Seriously, it really works. Just not as pretty, convenient, or stable as it needs to be.
12:17:31 <andi5> register-rewrite is the oldest active branch i know of, ... would not it be better to rebranch?
12:18:14 <chris> there's no need. every time I merge from trunk to the branch, it's like rebranching.
12:19:00 <andi5> ok, ... seems like there have been 800 revisions again ;)
12:20:12 <warlord> 800 revs?
12:20:52 <andi5> 14537:153312
12:21:02 <warlord> 153312?!?
12:21:06 <andi5> ok, not _that_much ;) 15312
12:21:11 <warlord> LOL
12:27:11 <chris> ok, new branch-base of register rewrite is now 15058
12:27:25 <warlord> Is that in the merge commit message? :)
12:27:40 <andi5> yes
12:27:47 <warlord> 'k
12:27:59 <warlord> chris: what IS the status of the register-rewrite branch?
12:29:10 <andi5> hm... did you change some trac configuration? it stopped showing all changes in all files .... i can look at r15313... wow :)
12:29:49 <warlord> Um, /I/ didn't change anything recently.
12:29:56 <jsled> nor i
12:30:10 <andi5> maybe there is a threshold it uses to show big commits?
12:30:19 <warlord> maybe
12:32:03 <warlord> There /is/ a trac update waiting, but last time I tried it it broke in many more ways.
12:32:46 <chris> warlord: Do you mean technically?
12:32:53 <chris> http://svn.gnucash.org/trac/browser/gnucash/branches/register-rewrite/src/gnome-utils/gnc-tree-view-transaction.c#L1
12:33:10 <chris> Do those notes answer the question? somewhat?
12:33:45 <warlord> chris: Yeah, what (technically) is the status of the rewrite branch?
12:34:37 <warlord> and yeah, that somewhat answers it.
12:35:20 <chris> of course, actually running it is the program-worth-a-thousand-notes.
12:37:00 <chris> It kind of sucks that I don't have time right now to work on it. It was a solid 6-months of gnucash-hacking time.
12:37:46 <warlord> So if we wanted to reuse the GUI for invoices, would we need a gnc-tree-view-invoice or gnc-tree-view-gncentry?
12:38:24 <warlord> (invoice entry is much less complicated that account/transaction entry -- no double lines or split transactions or anything like that)
12:40:08 <chris> probably, subclassing gnctreeview gives you a lot of goodness. if they're not that complicated there's probably not much more to be added.
12:40:49 <chris> just compare to the gnc-tree-view-
12:41:14 <chris> gnc-tree-view-* where * is something of similar complexity.
12:44:19 <chris> Is sounds like converting the business widgets would be much easier than the register, since they never really needed the register for its register-like functionality, but rather for its treeview-like functionality.
12:46:10 <warlord> Maybe.
12:46:28 <warlord> (I'm not sure what you mean by "register-like" vs. "treeview-like")
12:49:30 <chris> maybe a better way to say it: view+controller vs. just the view.
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12:53:06 <warlord> Could be. The invoice editor is sort of like editing a single transaction (or a bunch of "basic-register-style" transactions)
12:59:45 <jsled> Hmm. What does the register provide in terms of ransaction editing?
12:59:53 <jsled> Er... in terms of Transaction editing support...
12:59:57 <jsled> ... blank split/trans.
13:00:09 <jsled> begin/{commit,rollback}.
13:00:36 <jsled> (I mean, apart from the tree-view side of it)
13:04:58 <chris> custom editors, custom expand/collapse behavior, tailoring treeview configuration for different "modes", support dialogs, custom navigation.
13:05:24 <chris> (although, I'm not sure if you consider any of those on the "tree-view side")
13:05:54 <jsled> No, I think you got what I meant.
13:07:43 <warlord> What kind of "support dialogs"?
13:07:53 <warlord> or "custom navigation"?
13:08:07 <jsled> I'd guess the latter is tab/enter-handling?
13:09:44 <chris> basically the same set of support dialogs the current register uses.
13:10:01 <jsled> Though I guess that's not necessarily Register-specific. Any whole/part relationship with an expandable parts list could use the tab-to-blank-"item [split]"-enter-to-verify behavior.
13:12:21 <warlord> chris: what do you consider a "support dialog" in this case?
13:13:20 <chris> um, all of the dialogs that the register pops up.
13:13:22 <warlord> invoices don't really need custom collapse handling.
13:13:30 <warlord> like "choose an account"?
13:13:40 <warlord> .. I guess 'create an account'.. But
13:13:46 <warlord> everything is going to need that.
13:18:29 <chris> the Imbalance dialog, the Placeholder dialog, the Confirm changes dialog, etc...
13:19:16 <warlord> Ahh.. Those. Thanks.
13:21:49 <warlord> (I guess I really didn't think of those as "dialogs".. Not sure why my brain didn't even think of those)
13:22:46 <jsled> [ot] http://www.unmaintained-free-software.org/wiki/Main_Page
13:23:52 <andi5> i like their logo.... what time is it? ;-)
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13:24:59 <jsled> @list
13:24:59 <gncbot> jsled: Admin, AutoMode, Channel, ChannelLogger, Config, Later, Misc, Owner, Seen, and User
13:25:06 <jsled> @list misc
13:25:06 <gncbot> jsled: apropos, help, last, list, more, ping, source, and version
13:25:24 <jsled> Huh. I thought we had a time-providing plugin loaded.
13:25:40 <jsled> Might actually be handy, given TZ differences between us all.
13:25:53 <warlord> what, like @tz <city>?
13:26:07 <jsled> Or probably @time <zone-name> or omsething.
13:28:11 <jsled> Bah. No, it doesn't seem to have that in the relatively useless Time plugin - http://supybot.com/documentation/plugins/time/document_view
13:28:41 <jsled> gncbot: suck, you do.
13:28:41 <gncbot> jsled: Error: "suck," is not a valid command.
13:29:21 <warlord> jsled: hey, YOU wanted supybot!
13:29:26 <andi5> jsled: weird, i did not find supy0t on the site you linked above....
13:29:45 <jsled> It doesn't mean it doesn't suck. It just seems to suck less than the others. :)
13:31:12 <jsled> I should probably just write some sort of ops-management plugin for phenny. She's a stand-up bot.
13:31:47 <jsled> Oh, and a channel-log plugin too, I guess.
13:32:17 <jsled> (being 2 of supybot's 3.5 main selling points)
13:48:00 * warlord shrugs
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15:22:14 <andi5> ok.... so windows seems to work just as good without .la files if i additionally ... (g) change three (load-extension "bla" "blum") to (load-extension "bla-0" blum")
15:24:24 <andi5> drop me a note if that is not ok.... will try get everything up, running and in tomorrow
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15:29:58 <warlord> @tell andi5 I dont think that change will work on e.g. Unix or Mac.
15:29:58 <gncbot> warlord: The operation succeeded.
15:30:45 <warlord> @tell andi If you also change it to the 'no version' so you can remove the '-0' then I think it might be cross platform again.. Where do we actually use "load-extension" in scheme?
15:30:46 <gncbot> warlord: The operation succeeded.
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17:28:06 <andi5> warlord: you are right, i was not sure about the actual library names in linux... so: the load-extensions are in core-utils.scm, gnc-module.scm and qif-import.scm, they all load core libraries (last one engine)
17:29:09 <warlord> Yeah... I found them.
17:32:37 <andi5> warlord: i could add -avoid-version for libraries on windows too
17:33:55 <warlord> It might make sense for the GncModules (GModules?). But does load-extension work with that?
17:34:04 <warlord> Or does load-extension expect a shared library?
17:35:36 <andi5> hm.... i can imagine what a GncModule is (implements api), but what do we call a GModule, i am not sure any more :)
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17:38:46 <andi5> iirc load-extension just checks whether it has loaded a library, if not then it uses load-library(?) which uses the internal guile-ltdl code to lt_dlopen the ... file ;)
17:40:47 <andi5> dynamic-link, i mean
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17:45:38 <foo> warlord: I read most of the docs, thanks.
17:45:42 <foo> Things make a lot more sense now
17:46:22 <foo> Ideally, I would set up the accounts ... and just import the file from my bank's website into gnucash and that can populate everything, right?
17:46:52 <jsled> You'll need to map that import to those accounts, but the importer(s) will remember the mapping.
17:47:32 <warlord> andi5: will that work with a GncModule?
17:47:40 <jsled> Also, if there's any detail you want to capture that the import doesn't contain, you'll need to add it; splits for taxes or whatever.
17:47:52 <warlord> foo: what jsled said
17:48:01 <foo> gotcha, thanks
17:48:29 <andi5> it should, but as far i can see we do not shoot at GncModules at all with load-extension
17:49:13 <foo> ok, time to set this all up now
17:49:18 <foo> Hmm, how can I clear all my gnucash data and start over?
17:49:44 <andi5> file->new->new file?
17:51:47 <foo> doh!
17:51:47 <foo> thanks
17:54:58 * foo creates a business category, simple checkbook, and common
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17:56:40 <foo> Ok, should I set a starting balance for my checking account and savings? Or should I import the qif or whatever?
17:57:43 <jsled> foo: either way, I guess. The opening balance is just a transaction against Equity, so you can create it later if you want. If you want to reconcile, though, you might want to set it before doing the rec'n.
17:58:08 <foo> the rec'n ?
17:58:13 <jsled> reconciliation.
17:58:36 <foo> I see
17:59:24 <foo> I just don't know, is it best to do it manually, or export the qif from bank and do it there.. I think it might be best if I go this route because then it will populate everything
18:01:05 <jsled> It depends. I enter my receipts weekly, and because of how I'm accounting for most things, I can't really use the QIF importer. But if my accounting was more straightforward, I'd definitely do the imports.
18:02:09 <foo> I see
18:02:29 <foo> Yeah, I guess.. when I use the QIF importer, I'm not on 1:1 mapping anymore, right?
18:04:33 <warlord> andi5: Right.. libgncgnome, libgncmodule, and libcore-utils (should this be libgnccore-utils?) are shared libraries... Which means they should be versioned.. which means you cannot change the scheme code because it would fail on linux.
18:04:42 <jsled> No, you should still be. The 1:1 mapping that warlord was referring to before still (always) holds, and is more generally about gnucash modeled accounts and real-world accounts.
18:04:49 <jsled> foo: what makes you say that?
18:05:07 <foo> ah, I see
18:05:19 <foo> jsled: Lack of knowledge :) I'm trying to grasp these concepts
18:05:32 <foo> I want to say I gave OSS a chance... or, that I'm using OSS ... so I can be a testimony to others in the field.
18:08:43 <foo> jsled: Why isn't your accounting straightforward? What makes it straightforward? I'm a small business owner... mainly, have a personal savings/checking/visa.. and a business savings/checking ... and that's really it.. I invoice clients on a monthly basis... have some expenses here and there, but that's really it
18:09:08 <andi5> hm... good question regarding names of shared libraries ...
18:09:09 <andi5> currently: libA (core-utils), libgnc-A (backend-file-utils, business-ledger) and libgncA (gnome, module, qof) ...
18:09:09 <andi5> maybe all libgnc-A ? (h) .. would correspond to libgncmod-A
18:09:45 <jsled> foo: at that level, it's even more straightfoward than your scenario, as I don't have the business expenses.
18:10:17 <warlord> andi5: I think libgnc-A (and libgncmod-A) are good.
18:10:18 <foo> jsled: None at all? Sounds too good to be true :) What do you do? If you don't mind me asking
18:10:19 <jsled> But I track how much my fiancee owes me, and I track various expense accounts for regular expenses like groceries, costco, &c.
18:10:26 <foo> I see
18:10:55 <foo> jsled: so, given that you now know where I stand as far as what I do, do you think I should enter in the starting costs manually or just wait and then use the QIF importer?
18:11:10 <jsled> The problem with the importer is that it'll create a duplicate 2-split transaction for one that I've already hand-entered 5..8 splits for.
18:11:18 <jsled> And I then need to manually go and remove the duplicates.
18:11:31 <jsled> Which makes it negative value. :/
18:11:34 <andi5> well, one remains so i have to ask it... libgncqof-backend-qsf (currently, preferred) vs libgnc-qof-backend-qsf
18:12:11 <jsled> foo: Oh, I'm just a normal salaried employee, so my business expenses are just Income and reimbursements for travel Expenses.
18:13:16 <warlord> andi5: Good question. I dont know. Also, isnt that a Module, not a library?
18:13:23 <foo> jsled: ah, I see. So, I should do this by hand?
18:13:26 <andi5> it is a module and moved already
18:13:58 <jsled> foo: If you're asking about entering the Opening Balance before or after importing transactions: it really doesn't matter.
18:14:02 <foo> jsled: by hand = just enter starting costs. Sounds like less variable that way.. and like I will get it right
18:14:10 <warlord> Also, I wonder... Should we name them "gncmod-" to make it clear they aren't really "libraries"?
18:14:14 <foo> jsled: oh, ok.
18:14:18 <jsled> If it's expedient to enter opening balances now, then do it. Otherwise, you can do it later.
18:14:32 <warlord> andi5: note that I think all these name changes should happen after you merge the current "reshuffle-..." back into trunk.
18:14:40 <foo> jsled: gocha
18:14:44 <jsled> If you care to try to make sure the balance matches up after each batch of imports, well, then you need to have the correct opening balance up front.
18:15:31 <andi5> warlord: you mean much later? or just the order of merging and that change
18:16:20 <foo> jsled: I see
18:17:33 <warlord> andi5: order of operations. I think the current branch contents that I tested on macOS and you tested on windows should get merged back into trunk ASAP before you go off renaming stuff. I.e., we should get the win32 "make check" working.
18:18:07 <andi5> let me merge without changing back to windows again, please
18:18:16 <andi5> i will make sure that trunk will be ok tomorrow
18:18:34 <andi5> windows compiles are... slow :)
18:18:34 <warlord> ????
18:18:43 <warlord> I dont understand.
18:18:55 <warlord> Who said anything about switching back to windows to merge?
18:19:10 <andi5> i mean rebooting and testing the complete setup
18:19:44 <warlord> well, IIRC you were testing on Win32 what I tested on MacOS, right? You really haven't made any other changes since then... So the branch should (could) get merged now.
18:20:04 <andi5> ok... thanks!... you know, i am paranoid
18:20:13 <warlord> Too paranoid for your own good.
18:20:21 <andi5> hehe.... just reverting the latest change
18:21:12 <warlord> Oh, 312?
18:21:33 <andi5> yes
18:22:06 <warlord> 'k
18:22:34 <warlord> Thanks
18:26:10 <foo> Hm, I was going to use gnucash for just business.. I want to do this because I need to, not because I want to.. I should probably do it for personal too, right?
18:26:36 <warlord> If you want to ;)
18:26:58 <foo> Hmm, yeah... hmmm
18:26:59 <foo> Nah
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20:45:46 <foo> so, accounts receivable would be where money goes that I'm waiting for... like, when I bill a client at the end of the month
21:07:46 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
21:08:01 <warlord> foo: yeah. you should use A/R with Invoices, and A/P with Vendor Bills.
21:25:41 <foo> warlord: yup, thought so. Awesome, thanks
21:27:15 <warlord> NP
21:27:38 <foo> One of my new years goals for business was to get this done. I've heard gnucash everywhere
21:27:51 <foo> It was mentioned at SCALE, southern california linux expo by one of the speakers last year
21:27:57 <foo> And I've heard it other places too
21:29:50 <foo> warlord: You a developer?
21:30:36 * foo puts in newegg as a vendor
21:30:49 <warlord> yes
21:30:52 <foo> Newegg, since I pay right away, that wouldn't be accounts payable, would it?
21:31:01 <warlord> Correct
21:31:38 <foo> That would just be an expense. Hmm
21:31:45 <foo> I wonder, should I make a "newegg" account?
21:31:52 <foo> I buy parts from newegg for clients when need be
21:32:22 <warlord> Umm... I dont know how you want to model it.
21:32:33 <foo> Yeah /me thinks of the best way
21:32:45 <foo> I'd probably say to make a Newegg account and put it under expenses would be the best way to go
21:32:55 <foo> What would be the other ways to model it?
21:33:24 <warlord> i dont know.
21:33:44 <foo> Would you say that's probably the best way to do it? I think so
21:33:47 <foo> It'll probably suffice
21:33:58 <warlord> Honestly, I dont know.
21:34:03 <foo> ah, ok, thanks anywho
21:36:06 <foo> Who would you recommend I ask that to? jsled ?
21:36:13 <warlord> your accountant
21:36:22 <foo> oh
21:37:02 <foo> And what would be the question? In the past, I just brought him an excel sheet that said what my income and expenses were for different things. expenses for parts, etc. hmm, ok, I can ask him, though
21:37:06 <foo> thanks
21:37:50 <warlord> Well, the question is "should I lump all NewEgg purchases together or break them apart into different categories based on what I buy?"
21:38:01 <foo> Gotcha
21:38:03 <foo> I see
21:38:50 <foo> warlord: Thanks. I'm still trying to grasp the concepts here.. appreciate your patience
21:38:55 <warlord> Remember: 1-to-1 mapping of real life to gnucash accounts.. It all depends what level of detail you need.. how many buckets you have
21:39:14 <foo> yeah
21:39:20 <foo> I see what you're saying
21:40:10 <warlord> For example, you could have Expenses:Groceries.. Or you could have Expenses:Groceries:{Fruit,Veggies,Meats,...} -- all depends on the level of detail you want.
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21:56:24 <guitoun> Hello,
22:00:04 <foo> warlord: Ohhh, I see.
22:00:14 <foo> Hm, and fruits/veggies... are subaccounts of Groceries?
22:00:23 <guitoun> I have theses days installed the new gnucash 2.04 and I have following problem when I try to open a file from the previous 1.8.12 : "There was an error parsing the file.". Does any know how to figure out where the problem comes form (trace, logs, debug)? Thanks
22:02:09 <warlord> foo: yeah.. so you get finer grained lists of what you're buying, if you need that level of detail. Just remmeber that it's much easier to go from finer-grained to courser than the other way around. So it's better to err on the side of too many buckets than not enough.
22:02:36 <warlord> guitoun: Let me guess, your data file was ~/.gnucash/books/<file> ?
22:04:02 <guitoun> there are files with strange name (%) in that directory actually.
22:04:20 <warlord> guitoun: yes, but where was your data file stored?
22:04:51 <guitoun> these names seems to match a path. I saved the file containing my account else where.
22:05:17 <foo> warlord: I have to agree. I think I'm going to do that, thanks.
22:05:39 <warlord> Ahh, huh. So you get that error if you do File -> Open and then select your data file?
22:05:49 <warlord> foo: okay
22:05:55 <guitoun> yes warlord
22:06:10 <warlord> guitoun: anything printed on the terminal?
22:06:30 <warlord> guitoun: what do you get from: file /path/to/datafile
22:06:49 <guitoun> something like : gnucash: [D] "starting up (1)."
22:06:49 <guitoun> gnucash: [D] "handling command line arguments"("gnucash" "/home/guil/tmp/GnuComptes")
22:06:49 <guitoun> gnucash: [D] "handling arg ""/home/guil/tmp/GnuComptes"
22:06:49 <guitoun> gnucash: [D] "non-option ""/home/guil/tmp/GnuComptes"", assuming file"
22:06:49 <guitoun> gnucash: [D] "files to open: "("/home/guil/tmp/GnuComptes")
22:06:50 <guitoun> gnucash: [D] (results missing-lib)
22:07:37 <warlord> That's on the TERMINAL?!?
22:08:12 <guitoun> yes if I run the following : /usr/local/bin/gnucash --debug --loglevel=6 ~/tmp/GnuComptes
22:09:18 <warlord> What do you get from: file ~/tmp/GnuCompotes
22:09:29 <warlord> er, file ~/tmp/GnuComptes even
22:10:05 <guitoun> sorry?
22:11:16 <warlord> guitoun: what do you get when you run the command: file ~/tmp/GnuComptes
22:12:02 <guitoun> I get : /home/guil/tmp/GnuComptes: XML document text
22:12:34 <warlord> okay. what do you get from: head ~/tmp/GnuComptes
22:13:17 <guitoun> I can open this file with 1.8.12 but not 2.0.4.
22:13:21 <guitoun> <?xml version="1.0"?>
22:13:21 <guitoun> <gnc-v2>
22:13:21 <guitoun> <gnc:count-data cd:type="book">1</gnc:count-data>
22:13:21 <guitoun> <gnc:book version="2.0.0">
22:13:22 <guitoun> <book:id type="guid">de4ec751940ca97b2ae1492d85097a93</book:id>
22:13:24 <guitoun> <gnc:count-data cd:type="commodity">37</gnc:count-data>
22:13:26 <guitoun> <gnc:count-data cd:type="account">143</gnc:count-data>
22:13:28 <guitoun> <gnc:count-data cd:type="transaction">516</gnc:count-data>
22:13:30 <guitoun> <gnc:count-data cd:type="schedxaction">4</gnc:count-data>
22:13:32 <guitoun> <gnc:commodity version="2.0.0">
22:13:50 <warlord> I've never heard of a file that 1.8.x will open but 2.0.4 wont.
22:13:54 <warlord> That looks right.
22:14:04 <warlord> So... What do you see in /tmp/gnucash.trace?
22:14:39 <guitoun> the strange thing is that kmymoney can open it as well ...;)
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22:16:14 <guitoun> ho man I didn't know about this file. It's udge. I gone have a look at it
22:18:46 <guitoun> The first error is : Error: gnc_counter_end_handler(): Unknown type: (null)
22:18:59 <guitoun> can I send the file to you?
22:19:08 <warlord> http://pastebin.ca
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22:24:25 <guitoun> I paste the file after down sizing the log level to 1. Does it make sens?
22:24:43 <warlord> um, sure...
22:27:31 <warlord> @tell andi5 trunk seems to have problems after your merge.. Are you sure you merged your branch properly back into trunk?
22:27:31 <gncbot> warlord: The operation succeeded.
22:28:04 <warlord> guitoun: just a warning that I may be heading out soon...
22:29:12 <guitoun> yep thanks any way. I gone try to find this price:time' entry with a date of 1969-12-31 or 1970-01-01 in the XML file and remove it.
22:30:31 <chris> guitoun: that does ring a bell. Do you know how that entry got there?
22:31:30 <guitoun> no idea for the moment. It seems to be a transaction
22:32:02 <guitoun> but I use gnucahs for a will now so may be from a previous version?
22:32:29 <guitoun> I can let you know if i figure out.
22:33:47 <chris> I don't know. A _lot_ of people upgrade their data file from old version, but I've only seen this case once before. ISTR there was some suspicion that some other program had written/created the file.
22:34:46 <warlord> gotta run. ttfn
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22:35:15 <guitoun> thanks warlord. It works
22:35:54 <warlord-afk> guitoun: save a copy of the file that didn't work.. we might want to "look" at it some more, if you're willing to help us.
22:36:58 <guitoun> ok. perhaps a bit anoying because it contains private data:(
22:37:18 <guitoun> I'll what I can do.
22:37:32 <guitoun> who may I send it to?
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22:40:06 <warlord> well, that's why I said "look" (in quotes).. If you're willing to be more involved we wouldn't necessarily need the full data file, just a copy of the stuff that was deleted.. But if you feel comfortable you could send the datafile to me or chris.
22:40:33 <warlord> (you can look in the About/Authors/Credits for my email address or chris')
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22:41:16 <guitoun> ok cheers
22:41:21 <warlord> thanks!
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22:42:23 <chris> guitoun: I was kinda hoping you would say, yeah, there's a possibility some other porgram wrote to the file...
22:43:21 <guitoun> I don't know about that acually
22:43:34 <guitoun> what kind of programs?
22:45:24 <guitoun> thanks for your help. I let you know
22:46:40 <chris> was it in a transaction?
22:47:48 <chris> any kind of program that could write to the file, really.
22:48:09 <guitoun> um I don't think so
22:48:52 <guitoun> here is what I deleted : <price:time>
22:48:52 <guitoun> <ts:date>1970-01-01 01:00:00 +0100</ts:date>
22:48:52 <guitoun> </price:time>
22:49:17 <guitoun> in fact it's not a transaction but a price update
22:50:15 <guitoun> the commodity is FR0000031122.PA and the currency EURO
22:51:05 <guitoun> It's updated by <price:source>Finance::Quote</price:source>
22:51:14 <chris> well, I guess it doesn't really matter so much how it got there. It's a bug if we can't open a file with that. Can you file a bug report with the offending snippet?
22:51:41 <guitoun> yes I'll do that
22:51:45 <guitoun> cheers
22:51:49 <chris> cheers
23:20:18 <guitoun> hi chris, I submitted a bug (Bug 393395). Just a quick question why the data are know in binary format? can we still export them to XML? thanks
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00:15:43 <foo> jsled: around?
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09:35:10 <markvandenborre> are my accounts easy to transfer from gnucash 1.x to gnucash 2.x?
09:35:56 <markvandenborre> I'd love to be able to use gnucash 2 on ubuntu dapper, but I don't like the prospects of beta testing stuff
09:36:19 <markvandenborre> so if I want to use it, I'm stuck with 1.8.x
09:36:41 <markvandenborre> until the next long term support ubuntu release comes out
09:37:00 <markvandenborre> will I be able to transfer my accounts to 2.x without any problem?
09:40:34 <cstim> yes
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09:48:15 <markvandenborre> cstim, thx
09:52:02 <jsled> markvandenborre: We did a whole beta series of 1.9.x's; 2.0 is a stable release.
09:52:32 <markvandenborre> jsled, I know, I'm talking about the availability of packages
09:53:14 <jsled> markvandenborre: ah.
09:53:41 <cstim> did you see http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393055 ? The reporter claims that aqbanking isn't installed, but the gnucash package has hbci available anyway. That means the packager has screwed up the gnucash rpm dependencies. Royally.
09:54:07 <markvandenborre> ubuntu 6.06 LTS doesn't have 2.0 pacakges
09:54:31 <warlord> markvandenborre: true, but 6.10 does.
09:54:48 <warlord> markvandenborre: and I believe that there's some site that has backports.
09:56:09 <markvandenborre> I can grab them from a forum somewhere, but I don't feel like doing that
09:58:12 <markvandenborre> not for financial software anyway
09:59:00 * warlord shrugs.
09:59:13 <warlord> Then it sounds like we're at the end of the conversation. Hope you have a good day!
10:00:20 <cstim> Does anyone here have Fedora Core 6 available? Can you tell me whether its gnucash package has a requirement on aqbanking/libaqbanking?
10:01:37 <warlord> cstim: checking...
10:01:44 <jsled> markvandenborre: The 1.8 data file is openable under 2.0 directly; if you're not using any new-in-2.0 features, the resulting file is openable in 1.8, as well.
10:02:29 <jsled> markvandenborre: I can't imagine that 2.(x>0) would not be able to open a 1.8 datafile.
10:02:45 <jsled> markvandenborre: Do you know when the next LTS version is supposed to arrive?
10:03:22 <markvandenborre> october
10:05:01 <markvandenborre> jsled, warlord , btw, I've seen v2.0 in action
10:05:13 <warlord> cstim: yum install gnucash does pull in aqbanking
10:05:13 <markvandenborre> and it looks really good
10:05:51 <markvandenborre> I think it's appropriate for me to say thank you here for the great job you are doing
10:09:17 <jsled> markvandenborre: thanks.
10:09:44 <markvandenborre> bye, and a happy 2k7!
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10:09:54 <cstim> warlord: same for opensuse10.2: the gnucash rpm lists libaqbanking.so.16 correctly as requirement.
10:10:31 <warlord> Well, the yum database certainly does, which implies the rpm does..
10:11:25 <cstim> then either the user's answer in bugzilla was wrong, or this user (and many others) have forced yum/rpm to ignore that dependency. Both would seem rather weird.
10:14:06 <cstim> probably the user's answer was wrong. If gnucash tries to load libgncmod-hbci but libaqbanking is not there, then dlopen() should fail and this module cannot be loaded in the first place. Isn't this how dlopen() works if the module's library dependencies are not fulfilled?
10:14:56 <warlord> Yes
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10:22:04 <chris> @tell andi5 I had started a merge of post-swig trunk into register-rewrite. I'll see if I can finish that process this morning.
10:22:04 <gncbot> chris: The operation succeeded.
10:32:52 <cstim> @seen benoitg
10:32:52 <gncbot> cstim: benoitg was last seen in #gnucash 3 weeks, 6 days, 23 hours, 21 minutes, and 5 seconds ago: <benoitg> warlord: Whenever, thanks
10:35:30 <cstim> @tell benoitg Do you think you could make a new libofx release, 0.8.3? The commit http://libofx.cvs.sourceforge.net/libofx/libofx/lib/ofx_preproc.cpp?revision=1.16&view=markup indeed fixes a crash. This crash has been reported several times for gnucash by now, but it can really only be fixed by that change in libofx.
10:35:30 <gncbot> cstim: The operation succeeded.
10:36:01 * cstim could write an email as well...
10:36:19 <jsled> given he's not been here in 4 weeks, that might be adviseable.
10:36:23 <warlord> I dont understand why this guy can't run with trunk.
10:36:33 <warlord> cstim: yeah, send an email.
10:36:35 <jsled> advisable, too.
10:36:45 <cstim> warlord: who?
10:37:13 <warlord> Kevin Kleinfelter
10:37:21 <jsled> cstim: on -user.
10:37:28 <jsled> cstim: which you should be on. :)
10:38:30 <cstim> thanks.
10:38:50 <cstim> jsled: no, I'm already spending way way too much time on gnucash that I should spend on my PhD thesis instead.
10:39:01 <cstim> jsled: gnucash-de has enough traffic so far.
10:39:10 <cstim> which you should not be on :-)
10:40:10 <jsled> heh.
10:40:47 <warlord> Heh.
10:40:56 <warlord> jsled: I think it's fair that he's on -de and not on -user.
10:42:30 <cstim> but re swig on trunk: I clearly recall I had to upgrade SWIG before I was able to compile trunk again. So the configure check clearly worked iff I have a too old swig installed.
10:59:49 <warlord> cstim: that's what I remember, too. I have NO IDEA why configure isn't working.
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11:04:51 <cstim> hi andi5
11:04:56 <andi5> hiho
11:07:01 <warlord> Well, at least trunk works for him.
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11:15:03 <scyrma> accounting question : is a "line of credit" bank account a "bank account" or a "credit card account" in gnucash ?
11:16:01 <warlord> I would consider it a Liability or CC.
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11:29:58 <andi5> warlord: i am sorry, gnc-business-ledger is indeed no module, will revert back.... what about the following:
11:29:58 <andi5> (a) move gnc-business-ledger to $prefix/lib, because it is a library (neigher libtool nor gnc module)
11:29:58 <andi5> (b) rename gnc-backend-file to gncmod-backend-file ; move gncmod-backend-file (not -utils) and gncqof-backend-qsf to $prefix/lib/gnucash (both libtool and gnc modules)
11:29:58 <andi5> (c) compile all gnc modules with "-avoid-version" ... this _should_ (will need to test) enable us not to ship *.la files with the .exe... btw, it seems that at least all libtool modules (-module) are gnc modules---i will not change any -module parameter now
11:30:00 <andi5> (d) not build src/test-core with -module, why should it?
11:31:45 <warlord> a, b, and d are fine. c is probably okay but I dont know what it means.
11:33:55 <warlord> andi5: There are probably other libraries that are built as 'libgncmod-...' that really shouln't be.
11:33:57 <andi5> http://www.gnu.org/software/libtool/manual.html#Link-mode documents it... before: libgncmod-app-utils-0.dll, after: libgncmod-app-utils.dll.... but i will only make the change if that helps to drop .la on windows
11:34:18 <andi5> ok, will take a look
11:34:42 <warlord> I think libtool will always make a .la, and automake will always install it..
11:34:57 <warlord> But yeah, we should definitely make the code so we don't need the .la files installed.
11:35:18 <scyrma> warlord, thanks
11:36:53 <warlord> scyrma: you're welcome
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11:47:09 <andi5> (e) cosmetic change: business-{core,gnome} use businessmod-{core,gnome} instead of gncmod-business-{core,gnome}...
11:50:38 <warlord> That can get changed
11:50:48 <andi5> (f) do we make use of src/import-export/qif or is it ready for DIST_SUBDIRS? .... hmmmm
11:52:31 <warlord> nope, src/import-export/qif isn't built, because it's not used.. it was my incomplete qif-import rewrite.
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11:53:33 <warlord> (we dont use qif-io-core either)
11:53:57 <andi5> yes, but where did you disable qif?
11:54:16 <andi5> (the tests are disable, as far as i can see)
11:55:12 <warlord> Sorry, it's not disabled.. But it's not used.
11:55:13 <andi5> hm... no, my Makefile says something different... do not mind
11:55:21 <warlord> (qif)
11:55:33 <andi5> oh... i was to eager finding my mistake ;)
11:55:39 <warlord> heh
11:55:58 <andi5> so (f) disable building it?
11:56:04 <warlord> Nah.
11:56:09 <andi5> hehe :)
11:58:34 * andi5 first needs git on windows
11:58:46 <warlord> Are you really liking git?
11:58:53 <andi5> i _love_ it
11:59:35 <andi5> i am a newbie, but really enjoy what i can do with it (already)
12:00:05 <warlord> Huh.
12:01:06 <andi5> merging branches for svn is non-trivial, but i guess this will improve someday
12:03:02 <warlord> svk makes branch merging trivial.. (modulo having to manually deal with conflicts)
12:05:43 <andi5> the same holds for git.... it is only git-svn that is confused about the merge and all these new commits it wants to push itself now ;)
12:06:35 <warlord> Oh. :(
12:07:13 <andi5> the merge commit has two parents, both heads that got merged, along with all their predecessors (history).... git-svn now determines the symmetric difference (git-diff-tree, i think) between the new head (merge commit) and old branch head, which contains the commits of, say trun
12:07:14 <andi5> k
12:08:47 <andi5> but this sounds like a bug to me, maybe it is fixed already ;)
12:10:16 <chris> hi andi5
12:10:24 <andi5> hiho chris :)
12:10:45 <chris> I love git, too, but when I last tried using it w/ gnucash git-svn was rather immature.
12:11:01 <chris> that must've been over a year ago.
12:11:14 <andi5> well... git is like.... 20 months or so?
12:11:30 <chris> when I get back into serious gnucash development, I'll try again.
12:11:58 <chris> sounds about right.
12:12:07 <andi5> how are you? what have you been doing? :)
12:14:10 <chris> I just smoke-tested a merge of post-swig trunk into register-rewrite. It passed.
12:15:38 <andi5> chris: what is post-swig?
12:16:03 <chris> Looking at the current-state of register-rewrite should be quite inspiring, IMO.
12:16:35 <chris> I jsut mean trunk at a point after the merge of the swig branch.
12:16:36 <andi5> hehe :)
12:17:26 <chris> Seriously, it really works. Just not as pretty, convenient, or stable as it needs to be.
12:17:31 <andi5> register-rewrite is the oldest active branch i know of, ... would not it be better to rebranch?
12:18:14 <chris> there's no need. every time I merge from trunk to the branch, it's like rebranching.
12:19:00 <andi5> ok, ... seems like there have been 800 revisions again ;)
12:20:12 <warlord> 800 revs?
12:20:52 <andi5> 14537:153312
12:21:02 <warlord> 153312?!?
12:21:06 <andi5> ok, not _that_much ;) 15312
12:21:11 <warlord> LOL
12:27:11 <chris> ok, new branch-base of register rewrite is now 15058
12:27:25 <warlord> Is that in the merge commit message? :)
12:27:40 <andi5> yes
12:27:47 <warlord> 'k
12:27:59 <warlord> chris: what IS the status of the register-rewrite branch?
12:29:10 <andi5> hm... did you change some trac configuration? it stopped showing all changes in all files .... i can look at r15313... wow :)
12:29:49 <warlord> Um, /I/ didn't change anything recently.
12:29:56 <jsled> nor i
12:30:10 <andi5> maybe there is a threshold it uses to show big commits?
12:30:19 <warlord> maybe
12:32:03 <warlord> There /is/ a trac update waiting, but last time I tried it it broke in many more ways.
12:32:46 <chris> warlord: Do you mean technically?
12:32:53 <chris> http://svn.gnucash.org/trac/browser/gnucash/branches/register-rewrite/src/gnome-utils/gnc-tree-view-transaction.c#L1
12:33:10 <chris> Do those notes answer the question? somewhat?
12:33:45 <warlord> chris: Yeah, what (technically) is the status of the rewrite branch?
12:34:37 <warlord> and yeah, that somewhat answers it.
12:35:20 <chris> of course, actually running it is the program-worth-a-thousand-notes.
12:37:00 <chris> It kind of sucks that I don't have time right now to work on it. It was a solid 6-months of gnucash-hacking time.
12:37:46 <warlord> So if we wanted to reuse the GUI for invoices, would we need a gnc-tree-view-invoice or gnc-tree-view-gncentry?
12:38:24 <warlord> (invoice entry is much less complicated that account/transaction entry -- no double lines or split transactions or anything like that)
12:40:08 <chris> probably, subclassing gnctreeview gives you a lot of goodness. if they're not that complicated there's probably not much more to be added.
12:40:49 <chris> just compare to the gnc-tree-view-
12:41:14 <chris> gnc-tree-view-* where * is something of similar complexity.
12:44:19 <chris> Is sounds like converting the business widgets would be much easier than the register, since they never really needed the register for its register-like functionality, but rather for its treeview-like functionality.
12:46:10 <warlord> Maybe.
12:46:28 <warlord> (I'm not sure what you mean by "register-like" vs. "treeview-like")
12:49:30 <chris> maybe a better way to say it: view+controller vs. just the view.
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12:53:06 <warlord> Could be. The invoice editor is sort of like editing a single transaction (or a bunch of "basic-register-style" transactions)
12:59:45 <jsled> Hmm. What does the register provide in terms of ransaction editing?
12:59:53 <jsled> Er... in terms of Transaction editing support...
12:59:57 <jsled> ... blank split/trans.
13:00:09 <jsled> begin/{commit,rollback}.
13:00:36 <jsled> (I mean, apart from the tree-view side of it)
13:04:58 <chris> custom editors, custom expand/collapse behavior, tailoring treeview configuration for different "modes", support dialogs, custom navigation.
13:05:24 <chris> (although, I'm not sure if you consider any of those on the "tree-view side")
13:05:54 <jsled> No, I think you got what I meant.
13:07:43 <warlord> What kind of "support dialogs"?
13:07:53 <warlord> or "custom navigation"?
13:08:07 <jsled> I'd guess the latter is tab/enter-handling?
13:09:44 <chris> basically the same set of support dialogs the current register uses.
13:10:01 <jsled> Though I guess that's not necessarily Register-specific. Any whole/part relationship with an expandable parts list could use the tab-to-blank-"item [split]"-enter-to-verify behavior.
13:12:21 <warlord> chris: what do you consider a "support dialog" in this case?
13:13:20 <chris> um, all of the dialogs that the register pops up.
13:13:22 <warlord> invoices don't really need custom collapse handling.
13:13:30 <warlord> like "choose an account"?
13:13:40 <warlord> .. I guess 'create an account'.. But
13:13:46 <warlord> everything is going to need that.
13:18:29 <chris> the Imbalance dialog, the Placeholder dialog, the Confirm changes dialog, etc...
13:19:16 <warlord> Ahh.. Those. Thanks.
13:21:49 <warlord> (I guess I really didn't think of those as "dialogs".. Not sure why my brain didn't even think of those)
13:22:46 <jsled> [ot] http://www.unmaintained-free-software.org/wiki/Main_Page
13:23:52 <andi5> i like their logo.... what time is it? ;-)
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13:24:59 <jsled> @list
13:24:59 <gncbot> jsled: Admin, AutoMode, Channel, ChannelLogger, Config, Later, Misc, Owner, Seen, and User
13:25:06 <jsled> @list misc
13:25:06 <gncbot> jsled: apropos, help, last, list, more, ping, source, and version
13:25:24 <jsled> Huh. I thought we had a time-providing plugin loaded.
13:25:40 <jsled> Might actually be handy, given TZ differences between us all.
13:25:53 <warlord> what, like @tz <city>?
13:26:07 <jsled> Or probably @time <zone-name> or omsething.
13:28:11 <jsled> Bah. No, it doesn't seem to have that in the relatively useless Time plugin - http://supybot.com/documentation/plugins/time/document_view
13:28:41 <jsled> gncbot: suck, you do.
13:28:41 <gncbot> jsled: Error: "suck," is not a valid command.
13:29:21 <warlord> jsled: hey, YOU wanted supybot!
13:29:26 <andi5> jsled: weird, i did not find supy0t on the site you linked above....
13:29:45 <jsled> It doesn't mean it doesn't suck. It just seems to suck less than the others. :)
13:31:12 <jsled> I should probably just write some sort of ops-management plugin for phenny. She's a stand-up bot.
13:31:47 <jsled> Oh, and a channel-log plugin too, I guess.
13:32:17 <jsled> (being 2 of supybot's 3.5 main selling points)
13:48:00 * warlord shrugs
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15:22:14 <andi5> ok.... so windows seems to work just as good without .la files if i additionally ... (g) change three (load-extension "bla" "blum") to (load-extension "bla-0" blum")
15:24:24 <andi5> drop me a note if that is not ok.... will try get everything up, running and in tomorrow
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15:29:58 <warlord> @tell andi5 I dont think that change will work on e.g. Unix or Mac.
15:29:58 <gncbot> warlord: The operation succeeded.
15:30:45 <warlord> @tell andi If you also change it to the 'no version' so you can remove the '-0' then I think it might be cross platform again.. Where do we actually use "load-extension" in scheme?
15:30:46 <gncbot> warlord: The operation succeeded.
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17:28:06 <andi5> warlord: you are right, i was not sure about the actual library names in linux... so: the load-extensions are in core-utils.scm, gnc-module.scm and qif-import.scm, they all load core libraries (last one engine)
17:29:09 <warlord> Yeah... I found them.
17:32:37 <andi5> warlord: i could add -avoid-version for libraries on windows too
17:33:55 <warlord> It might make sense for the GncModules (GModules?). But does load-extension work with that?
17:34:04 <warlord> Or does load-extension expect a shared library?
17:35:36 <andi5> hm.... i can imagine what a GncModule is (implements api), but what do we call a GModule, i am not sure any more :)
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17:38:46 <andi5> iirc load-extension just checks whether it has loaded a library, if not then it uses load-library(?) which uses the internal guile-ltdl code to lt_dlopen the ... file ;)
17:40:47 <andi5> dynamic-link, i mean
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17:45:38 <foo> warlord: I read most of the docs, thanks.
17:45:42 <foo> Things make a lot more sense now
17:46:22 <foo> Ideally, I would set up the accounts ... and just import the file from my bank's website into gnucash and that can populate everything, right?
17:46:52 <jsled> You'll need to map that import to those accounts, but the importer(s) will remember the mapping.
17:47:32 <warlord> andi5: will that work with a GncModule?
17:47:40 <jsled> Also, if there's any detail you want to capture that the import doesn't contain, you'll need to add it; splits for taxes or whatever.
17:47:52 <warlord> foo: what jsled said
17:48:01 <foo> gotcha, thanks
17:48:29 <andi5> it should, but as far i can see we do not shoot at GncModules at all with load-extension
17:49:13 <foo> ok, time to set this all up now
17:49:18 <foo> Hmm, how can I clear all my gnucash data and start over?
17:49:44 <andi5> file->new->new file?
17:51:47 <foo> doh!
17:51:47 <foo> thanks
17:54:58 * foo creates a business category, simple checkbook, and common
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17:56:40 <foo> Ok, should I set a starting balance for my checking account and savings? Or should I import the qif or whatever?
17:57:43 <jsled> foo: either way, I guess. The opening balance is just a transaction against Equity, so you can create it later if you want. If you want to reconcile, though, you might want to set it before doing the rec'n.
17:58:08 <foo> the rec'n ?
17:58:13 <jsled> reconciliation.
17:58:36 <foo> I see
17:59:24 <foo> I just don't know, is it best to do it manually, or export the qif from bank and do it there.. I think it might be best if I go this route because then it will populate everything
18:01:05 <jsled> It depends. I enter my receipts weekly, and because of how I'm accounting for most things, I can't really use the QIF importer. But if my accounting was more straightforward, I'd definitely do the imports.
18:02:09 <foo> I see
18:02:29 <foo> Yeah, I guess.. when I use the QIF importer, I'm not on 1:1 mapping anymore, right?
18:04:33 <warlord> andi5: Right.. libgncgnome, libgncmodule, and libcore-utils (should this be libgnccore-utils?) are shared libraries... Which means they should be versioned.. which means you cannot change the scheme code because it would fail on linux.
18:04:42 <jsled> No, you should still be. The 1:1 mapping that warlord was referring to before still (always) holds, and is more generally about gnucash modeled accounts and real-world accounts.
18:04:49 <jsled> foo: what makes you say that?
18:05:07 <foo> ah, I see
18:05:19 <foo> jsled: Lack of knowledge :) I'm trying to grasp these concepts
18:05:32 <foo> I want to say I gave OSS a chance... or, that I'm using OSS ... so I can be a testimony to others in the field.
18:08:43 <foo> jsled: Why isn't your accounting straightforward? What makes it straightforward? I'm a small business owner... mainly, have a personal savings/checking/visa.. and a business savings/checking ... and that's really it.. I invoice clients on a monthly basis... have some expenses here and there, but that's really it
18:09:08 <andi5> hm... good question regarding names of shared libraries ...
18:09:09 <andi5> currently: libA (core-utils), libgnc-A (backend-file-utils, business-ledger) and libgncA (gnome, module, qof) ...
18:09:09 <andi5> maybe all libgnc-A ? (h) .. would correspond to libgncmod-A
18:09:45 <jsled> foo: at that level, it's even more straightfoward than your scenario, as I don't have the business expenses.
18:10:17 <warlord> andi5: I think libgnc-A (and libgncmod-A) are good.
18:10:18 <foo> jsled: None at all? Sounds too good to be true :) What do you do? If you don't mind me asking
18:10:19 <jsled> But I track how much my fiancee owes me, and I track various expense accounts for regular expenses like groceries, costco, &c.
18:10:26 <foo> I see
18:10:55 <foo> jsled: so, given that you now know where I stand as far as what I do, do you think I should enter in the starting costs manually or just wait and then use the QIF importer?
18:11:10 <jsled> The problem with the importer is that it'll create a duplicate 2-split transaction for one that I've already hand-entered 5..8 splits for.
18:11:18 <jsled> And I then need to manually go and remove the duplicates.
18:11:31 <jsled> Which makes it negative value. :/
18:11:34 <andi5> well, one remains so i have to ask it... libgncqof-backend-qsf (currently, preferred) vs libgnc-qof-backend-qsf
18:12:11 <jsled> foo: Oh, I'm just a normal salaried employee, so my business expenses are just Income and reimbursements for travel Expenses.
18:13:16 <warlord> andi5: Good question. I dont know. Also, isnt that a Module, not a library?
18:13:23 <foo> jsled: ah, I see. So, I should do this by hand?
18:13:26 <andi5> it is a module and moved already
18:13:58 <jsled> foo: If you're asking about entering the Opening Balance before or after importing transactions: it really doesn't matter.
18:14:02 <foo> jsled: by hand = just enter starting costs. Sounds like less variable that way.. and like I will get it right
18:14:10 <warlord> Also, I wonder... Should we name them "gncmod-" to make it clear they aren't really "libraries"?
18:14:14 <foo> jsled: oh, ok.
18:14:18 <jsled> If it's expedient to enter opening balances now, then do it. Otherwise, you can do it later.
18:14:32 <warlord> andi5: note that I think all these name changes should happen after you merge the current "reshuffle-..." back into trunk.
18:14:40 <foo> jsled: gocha
18:14:44 <jsled> If you care to try to make sure the balance matches up after each batch of imports, well, then you need to have the correct opening balance up front.
18:15:31 <andi5> warlord: you mean much later? or just the order of merging and that change
18:16:20 <foo> jsled: I see
18:17:33 <warlord> andi5: order of operations. I think the current branch contents that I tested on macOS and you tested on windows should get merged back into trunk ASAP before you go off renaming stuff. I.e., we should get the win32 "make check" working.
18:18:07 <andi5> let me merge without changing back to windows again, please
18:18:16 <andi5> i will make sure that trunk will be ok tomorrow
18:18:34 <andi5> windows compiles are... slow :)
18:18:34 <warlord> ????
18:18:43 <warlord> I dont understand.
18:18:55 <warlord> Who said anything about switching back to windows to merge?
18:19:10 <andi5> i mean rebooting and testing the complete setup
18:19:44 <warlord> well, IIRC you were testing on Win32 what I tested on MacOS, right? You really haven't made any other changes since then... So the branch should (could) get merged now.
18:20:04 <andi5> ok... thanks!... you know, i am paranoid
18:20:13 <warlord> Too paranoid for your own good.
18:20:21 <andi5> hehe.... just reverting the latest change
18:21:12 <warlord> Oh, 312?
18:21:33 <andi5> yes
18:22:06 <warlord> 'k
18:22:34 <warlord> Thanks
18:26:10 <foo> Hm, I was going to use gnucash for just business.. I want to do this because I need to, not because I want to.. I should probably do it for personal too, right?
18:26:36 <warlord> If you want to ;)
18:26:58 <foo> Hmm, yeah... hmmm
18:26:59 <foo> Nah
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20:45:46 <foo> so, accounts receivable would be where money goes that I'm waiting for... like, when I bill a client at the end of the month
21:07:46 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
21:08:01 <warlord> foo: yeah. you should use A/R with Invoices, and A/P with Vendor Bills.
21:25:41 <foo> warlord: yup, thought so. Awesome, thanks
21:27:15 <warlord> NP
21:27:38 <foo> One of my new years goals for business was to get this done. I've heard gnucash everywhere
21:27:51 <foo> It was mentioned at SCALE, southern california linux expo by one of the speakers last year
21:27:57 <foo> And I've heard it other places too
21:29:50 <foo> warlord: You a developer?
21:30:36 * foo puts in newegg as a vendor
21:30:49 <warlord> yes
21:30:52 <foo> Newegg, since I pay right away, that wouldn't be accounts payable, would it?
21:31:01 <warlord> Correct
21:31:38 <foo> That would just be an expense. Hmm
21:31:45 <foo> I wonder, should I make a "newegg" account?
21:31:52 <foo> I buy parts from newegg for clients when need be
21:32:22 <warlord> Umm... I dont know how you want to model it.
21:32:33 <foo> Yeah /me thinks of the best way
21:32:45 <foo> I'd probably say to make a Newegg account and put it under expenses would be the best way to go
21:32:55 <foo> What would be the other ways to model it?
21:33:24 <warlord> i dont know.
21:33:44 <foo> Would you say that's probably the best way to do it? I think so
21:33:47 <foo> It'll probably suffice
21:33:58 <warlord> Honestly, I dont know.
21:34:03 <foo> ah, ok, thanks anywho
21:36:06 <foo> Who would you recommend I ask that to? jsled ?
21:36:13 <warlord> your accountant
21:36:22 <foo> oh
21:37:02 <foo> And what would be the question? In the past, I just brought him an excel sheet that said what my income and expenses were for different things. expenses for parts, etc. hmm, ok, I can ask him, though
21:37:06 <foo> thanks
21:37:50 <warlord> Well, the question is "should I lump all NewEgg purchases together or break them apart into different categories based on what I buy?"
21:38:01 <foo> Gotcha
21:38:03 <foo> I see
21:38:50 <foo> warlord: Thanks. I'm still trying to grasp the concepts here.. appreciate your patience
21:38:55 <warlord> Remember: 1-to-1 mapping of real life to gnucash accounts.. It all depends what level of detail you need.. how many buckets you have
21:39:14 <foo> yeah
21:39:20 <foo> I see what you're saying
21:40:10 <warlord> For example, you could have Expenses:Groceries.. Or you could have Expenses:Groceries:{Fruit,Veggies,Meats,...} -- all depends on the level of detail you want.
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21:56:24 <guitoun> Hello,
22:00:04 <foo> warlord: Ohhh, I see.
22:00:14 <foo> Hm, and fruits/veggies... are subaccounts of Groceries?
22:00:23 <guitoun> I have theses days installed the new gnucash 2.04 and I have following problem when I try to open a file from the previous 1.8.12 : "There was an error parsing the file.". Does any know how to figure out where the problem comes form (trace, logs, debug)? Thanks
22:02:09 <warlord> foo: yeah.. so you get finer grained lists of what you're buying, if you need that level of detail. Just remmeber that it's much easier to go from finer-grained to courser than the other way around. So it's better to err on the side of too many buckets than not enough.
22:02:36 <warlord> guitoun: Let me guess, your data file was ~/.gnucash/books/<file> ?
22:04:02 <guitoun> there are files with strange name (%) in that directory actually.
22:04:20 <warlord> guitoun: yes, but where was your data file stored?
22:04:51 <guitoun> these names seems to match a path. I saved the file containing my account else where.
22:05:17 <foo> warlord: I have to agree. I think I'm going to do that, thanks.
22:05:39 <warlord> Ahh, huh. So you get that error if you do File -> Open and then select your data file?
22:05:49 <warlord> foo: okay
22:05:55 <guitoun> yes warlord
22:06:10 <warlord> guitoun: anything printed on the terminal?
22:06:30 <warlord> guitoun: what do you get from: file /path/to/datafile
22:06:49 <guitoun> something like : gnucash: [D] "starting up (1)."
22:06:49 <guitoun> gnucash: [D] "handling command line arguments"("gnucash" "/home/guil/tmp/GnuComptes")
22:06:49 <guitoun> gnucash: [D] "handling arg ""/home/guil/tmp/GnuComptes"
22:06:49 <guitoun> gnucash: [D] "non-option ""/home/guil/tmp/GnuComptes"", assuming file"
22:06:49 <guitoun> gnucash: [D] "files to open: "("/home/guil/tmp/GnuComptes")
22:06:50 <guitoun> gnucash: [D] (results missing-lib)
22:07:37 <warlord> That's on the TERMINAL?!?
22:08:12 <guitoun> yes if I run the following : /usr/local/bin/gnucash --debug --loglevel=6 ~/tmp/GnuComptes
22:09:18 <warlord> What do you get from: file ~/tmp/GnuCompotes
22:09:29 <warlord> er, file ~/tmp/GnuComptes even
22:10:05 <guitoun> sorry?
22:11:16 <warlord> guitoun: what do you get when you run the command: file ~/tmp/GnuComptes
22:12:02 <guitoun> I get : /home/guil/tmp/GnuComptes: XML document text
22:12:34 <warlord> okay. what do you get from: head ~/tmp/GnuComptes
22:13:17 <guitoun> I can open this file with 1.8.12 but not 2.0.4.
22:13:21 <guitoun> <?xml version="1.0"?>
22:13:21 <guitoun> <gnc-v2>
22:13:21 <guitoun> <gnc:count-data cd:type="book">1</gnc:count-data>
22:13:21 <guitoun> <gnc:book version="2.0.0">
22:13:22 <guitoun> <book:id type="guid">de4ec751940ca97b2ae1492d85097a93</book:id>
22:13:24 <guitoun> <gnc:count-data cd:type="commodity">37</gnc:count-data>
22:13:26 <guitoun> <gnc:count-data cd:type="account">143</gnc:count-data>
22:13:28 <guitoun> <gnc:count-data cd:type="transaction">516</gnc:count-data>
22:13:30 <guitoun> <gnc:count-data cd:type="schedxaction">4</gnc:count-data>
22:13:32 <guitoun> <gnc:commodity version="2.0.0">
22:13:50 <warlord> I've never heard of a file that 1.8.x will open but 2.0.4 wont.
22:13:54 <warlord> That looks right.
22:14:04 <warlord> So... What do you see in /tmp/gnucash.trace?
22:14:39 <guitoun> the strange thing is that kmymoney can open it as well ...;)
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22:16:14 <guitoun> ho man I didn't know about this file. It's udge. I gone have a look at it
22:18:46 <guitoun> The first error is : Error: gnc_counter_end_handler(): Unknown type: (null)
22:18:59 <guitoun> can I send the file to you?
22:19:08 <warlord> http://pastebin.ca
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22:24:25 <guitoun> I paste the file after down sizing the log level to 1. Does it make sens?
22:24:43 <warlord> um, sure...
22:27:31 <warlord> @tell andi5 trunk seems to have problems after your merge.. Are you sure you merged your branch properly back into trunk?
22:27:31 <gncbot> warlord: The operation succeeded.
22:28:04 <warlord> guitoun: just a warning that I may be heading out soon...
22:29:12 <guitoun> yep thanks any way. I gone try to find this price:time' entry with a date of 1969-12-31 or 1970-01-01 in the XML file and remove it.
22:30:31 <chris> guitoun: that does ring a bell. Do you know how that entry got there?
22:31:30 <guitoun> no idea for the moment. It seems to be a transaction
22:32:02 <guitoun> but I use gnucahs for a will now so may be from a previous version?
22:32:29 <guitoun> I can let you know if i figure out.
22:33:47 <chris> I don't know. A _lot_ of people upgrade their data file from old version, but I've only seen this case once before. ISTR there was some suspicion that some other program had written/created the file.
22:34:46 <warlord> gotta run. ttfn
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22:35:15 <guitoun> thanks warlord. It works
22:35:54 <warlord-afk> guitoun: save a copy of the file that didn't work.. we might want to "look" at it some more, if you're willing to help us.
22:36:58 <guitoun> ok. perhaps a bit anoying because it contains private data:(
22:37:18 <guitoun> I'll what I can do.
22:37:32 <guitoun> who may I send it to?
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22:40:06 <warlord> well, that's why I said "look" (in quotes).. If you're willing to be more involved we wouldn't necessarily need the full data file, just a copy of the stuff that was deleted.. But if you feel comfortable you could send the datafile to me or chris.
22:40:33 <warlord> (you can look in the About/Authors/Credits for my email address or chris')
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22:41:16 <guitoun> ok cheers
22:41:21 <warlord> thanks!
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22:42:23 <chris> guitoun: I was kinda hoping you would say, yeah, there's a possibility some other porgram wrote to the file...
22:43:21 <guitoun> I don't know about that acually
22:43:34 <guitoun> what kind of programs?
22:45:24 <guitoun> thanks for your help. I let you know
22:46:40 <chris> was it in a transaction?
22:47:48 <chris> any kind of program that could write to the file, really.
22:48:09 <guitoun> um I don't think so
22:48:52 <guitoun> here is what I deleted : <price:time>
22:48:52 <guitoun> <ts:date>1970-01-01 01:00:00 +0100</ts:date>
22:48:52 <guitoun> </price:time>
22:49:17 <guitoun> in fact it's not a transaction but a price update
22:50:15 <guitoun> the commodity is FR0000031122.PA and the currency EURO
22:51:05 <guitoun> It's updated by <price:source>Finance::Quote</price:source>
22:51:14 <chris> well, I guess it doesn't really matter so much how it got there. It's a bug if we can't open a file with that. Can you file a bug report with the offending snippet?
22:51:41 <guitoun> yes I'll do that
22:51:45 <guitoun> cheers
22:51:49 <chris> cheers
23:20:18 <guitoun> hi chris, I submitted a bug (Bug 393395). Just a quick question why the data are know in binary format? can we still export them to XML? thanks
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