2007-01-01 GnuCash IRC logs
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11:19:41 <jsled> @echo
11:19:41 <gncbot> jsled: Error: "echo" is not a valid command.
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11:23:27 * andi5 is happy
11:51:12 * andi5 is even happier now
11:51:35 <jsled> I'm going to bounce httpd on {!www}.gnucash.org in 7 minutes (at noon est)
11:51:45 <jsled> warlord-afk: ping; see ^^
11:58:01 <jsled> right, here we go.
12:02:29 <jsled> http://svn.gnucash.org/logs/2007-01-01.html
12:03:58 <jsled> andi5: yeah, I'm thinking of filtering those out.
12:10:49 * hampton laments that web sites don't publish interfaces for retrieving stock quotes
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13:09:01 <jsled> http://lists.gnucash.org/logs/2007-01-01.html updated.
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13:16:57 *** jsled changes topic to "Welcome! Don't meta-ask, ASK and WAIT. 2.0.3 released. FAQ: <http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ>. This is a publically-logged channel."
13:19:29 * jsled [off] tests.
13:19:44 <hampton> Was gncbot suppose to tell me that wasn't logged?
13:19:53 <jsled> hampton: no.
13:19:56 <hampton> k
13:20:18 <jsled> [off] test
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13:31:33 <andi5> jsled: so we filter out exactly ^\[off\].*$ ?
13:32:54 <hampton> :-)
13:32:57 <jsled> :)
13:33:58 <hampton> too much perl has purloined my wits ;-)
13:34:22 * jsled shrugs
13:34:40 * andi5 do not really care ;)
13:34:47 <andi5> s,do,does,
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13:37:50 <Dobrin> hello, I've just learnt about this software and I want to ask if it can do electronic filling , because I can't find anything about it in the homesite ?
13:38:29 <jsled> What do you mean by "electronic filing"?
13:38:44 <andi5> filling or filing?
13:38:46 <hampton> gnucash doesn't do taxes
13:39:05 <Dobrin> filing
13:39:33 <Dobrin> hampton , isn't it a tax software ?
13:39:59 <hampton> no, bookkeeping software. Heps you manage your finances, not file your taxes
13:40:24 <jsled> though there is support for accounting for taxes, but not preparing taxes formally.
13:41:31 <Dobrin> I understand, I was mislead then
13:41:57 <Dobrin> there is a site that recommends this as a free tax software
13:42:09 <Dobrin> along with Turbo Tax, TaxCut that aren't free
13:42:23 <Dobrin> do you have any experiences with free tax software ?
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13:43:08 <MrN> i guess tax software can't be international and thus it is less likely that a good open source program for that will exist
13:43:38 <Dobrin> I need such for USA
13:43:39 <jsled> MrN: yes and no ... I think it's more that -- in the US, anyways -- the rules are highly detailed, conflicting, and change all the time.
13:43:51 <Dobrin> Missourii, Kansas City
13:43:55 <MrN> jsled: erm yes, not different here :)
13:43:56 <jsled> So, it's just an amazing amount of effort to have correct software.
13:43:59 <andi5> then do taxes in germany....
13:44:04 <jsled> andi5: heh.
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13:45:50 <andi5> jsled: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Germany
13:46:15 <jsled> Oh. Boo.
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13:59:22 <chris> jsled: awesome job with the logging. thanks.
14:01:52 <jsled> chris: you're welcome.
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15:19:43 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
15:19:53 <warlord> happy new year, everyone. And jsled: nice job.
15:20:06 <jsled> happy new year, warlord.
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17:04:13 <Vantage> hi, I'm trying to find out if there's an easier way to handle this in gnucash. Currently, my gf and I split costs on certain items (rent, utils, etc). I pay the initial bill and she pays me back later. So every month or so I manually go through all the transactions that need to be split, add them up and split them. Is there any way to have gnucash keep a running total of these things while still keeping them payed in the right categories (rent,
17:05:16 <warlord> Vantage: use split transactions as you pay them.
17:05:33 <warlord> First, create an Assets:Moneys Owed to Me:Girlfriend account
17:05:39 <jsled> Vantage: http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_How_do_I_account_for_loaning.2Fbrowing_money_to.2Ffrom_a_friend.3F
17:06:10 <warlord> and then when you pay a split expense, split it between the actual expense and the money owed to you.
17:06:25 <warlord> For example, if rent is $500 and you split it 50/50, then you'd have a 3-split transaction:
17:06:34 <warlord> Assets:Checking $500
17:06:45 <warlord> A:MOtM:G $250
17:06:52 <warlord> Ex:Rent $250
17:09:06 <Vantage> ok, so let's see if I've got this straight. I'd create a new expense under rent, split it 3 ways, one would be the full payment from checking (so my checking account it accurate), then another to this new asset category, and the third would be my contribution to the rent?
17:12:27 <Vantage> is that correct?
17:12:47 <jsled> yup
17:13:56 <warlord> Yep!
17:14:12 <Vantage> jsled: ok, so I'm going to try one now. I've created the accounts (money owed and money owing) and it happens to be rent day :) So I split once and get three areas I can fill in. So I don't need to split it anymore, correct?
17:14:53 <MrN> is doing two transactions very bad?
17:14:57 <jsled> yeah ... once you get to the third split, it'll create a new, blank, 4th split at the end.
17:15:09 <jsled> MrN: eh?
17:15:18 <MrN> well i had a similar situationb
17:15:26 <MrN> but this damn autocompletion drove me crazy
17:15:28 <warlord> gotta run off.
17:15:30 *** warlord is now known as warlord-afk
17:15:32 <jsled> warlord-afk: take care.
17:15:34 <MrN> so i just created two full transactions
17:15:44 <Vantage> jsled: So the money owed to me is an expense or a rebate?
17:16:04 <warlord-afk> Vantage: enter it in from the Checking account register. It'll make much more sense.
17:16:49 <jsled> aye.
17:16:56 <jsled> (to warlord-afk's statement)
17:17:22 <jsled> The money owed to you is an Asset; if you're entering the txn from the Expense account, it'll be in the Rebate column.
17:17:39 <jsled> Perhaps more importantly, it'll be in the *other* column from the expense.
17:18:18 <Vantage> jsled:ok, so from checking then do I list the money owed to me as a deposit or a withdrawel?
17:18:25 <jsled> Actually, that might not be true....
17:19:43 <jsled> Vantage: well, if the rent payment (all $500) is in the widthdrawl column (as it would be), then all balancing transactions (the Assets:MOtM:Gf and the Expense) would be in the Deposit column.
17:20:06 <Vantage> jsled: and in the rebate column from expenses?
17:20:09 <jsled> Don't worry about the column heading too much, they can be counterintuitive. Think about it as an equation/scale balance.
17:20:15 <Vantage> jsled: I think that makes sense, so I hope I'm right :)
17:20:47 <MrN> yeah i just managed two merge the two inelegant transactions :D
17:21:33 <jsled> Vantage: yeah; if you're looking at it from the Expense account, both your expense, and the A:MOtM:GF, will be in the same column: Expense.
17:21:45 <jsled> Vantage: only the Assets:Checking will be in the Rebate column.
17:22:45 <jsled> MrN: Two transactions isn't very bad, but ISTM that splitting like that is really one transaction.
17:23:00 <jsled> MrN: Why is the autocompletion annoying?
17:23:03 <MrN> ISTM==?
17:23:12 <jsled> it seems to me
17:23:17 <MrN> jsled: it automatically adds accounts that do not exist
17:23:24 <MrN> "Ausgleichskonto-EUR" that is
17:23:24 <jsled> Hmmm?
17:23:38 <Vantage> jsled: k, I'm confused again. In checking I only have deposit or withdrawel. The expense of course is in the withdrawel column and my Expense rent is in the deposit column. Should the money owed be in the deposit column?
17:24:19 <MrN> hell what does Clearing EUR mean? and why does it automatically add it to the top of my tree?
17:24:36 <MrN> ...account tree
17:24:43 <jsled> Vantage: yes. Think of it this way: the invariant, as you mentioned, is that $500 came out of your checking account. Everything else must be in the other column, right?
17:24:59 <jsled> And, moreover, it must add up to the $500 that came out of the checking account...
17:25:12 <jsled> MrN: Would "imbalance" be a reasonable translation?
17:25:20 <MrN> i don't knwo :)
17:25:41 <MrN> anyways, i have to delete it manually because it annoys me :D
17:26:39 <Vantage> jsled: makes sense, but you were saying that under the expense:rent register that they would both be expenses? wouldn't that not balance?
17:26:40 <jsled> the AutoComplete should always fill in the last-entered state of the transaction; after you've deleted it, it shouldn't return. *Unless* that's actually the Imbalance logic, in which case you're entering imbalanced transactions, which *is* very bad.
17:27:17 <MrN> i'm incrementally making a transaction more complicated
17:27:27 <MrN> and temporarily it thus becomes imbalanced
17:28:03 <jsled> Vantage: no, it'll still balance; the registers are just views of the same set of (balanced) transactions.
17:29:05 <jsled> Vantage: Note that the "Expense" column in an expense register is really the Accounting column "Debit". So, that column would reflect a Debit to the Expense account, plus a Debit to the Asset:MOtM:GF account, against a Credit to the Assets:Checking account ... all still balanced.
17:31:15 <jsled> It's not that they're both Expenses, so much as they're both in the "Expense" column of an expense register, which isn't the same thing. Those column headings use an account-type specific "informal" label.
17:32:15 <jsled> MrN: Hmm. Sounds like you need to balance it, then. The Imbalance-<currency> accounts are created in order to maintain Double-entry integrity.
17:32:27 <Vantage> jsled: Ok, I think I get it. I'm going to try and see if it balances :)
17:32:41 <MrN> jsled: yeah but the previous time i tried, it didn't let me.
17:32:44 <MrN> this time it worked
17:32:47 <MrN> strange, eh? ;)
17:33:07 <jsled> MrN: There's a recent gnucash-user thread about this ... in 1.8, gnucash would be a bit more aggressive about prompting you for imbalanced transactions before (auto-)creating the account.
17:33:39 <jsled> MrN: Many (myself included) liked that behavior rather than the current, which is to relatively silently create the Imbalance account... even if you never want it to exist.
17:33:41 <MrN> it should actually ask me which account to auto-balance to.
17:33:59 <MrN> it should never exist anyways!
17:34:46 <jsled> Vantage: like warlord-afk said, it's much easier to reason about these things from the Assets/Checking accounts. Also (as per the other discussion :) it's *always* balanced, though a bit less so if an Imbalance account is one of the Splits.
17:35:11 <jsled> MrN: Right, it used to pop up a dialog being a bit more specific along those lines.
17:35:31 <MrN> a dialog where you can choose?
17:35:34 <jsled> MrN: And it still does .... if there's a balance on the "blank" split, things aren't really balanced,
17:35:42 <MrN> or simply a "Choose, asshole!" dialog?
17:36:32 <jsled> MrN: Well, it was a dialog saying "you're trying to leave a transaction unbalanced; you can: ( ) cancel, ( ) let gnucash balance it [jsled: via. Imbalance-CUR], ( ) balance it manually"
17:37:13 <jsled> (biab)
17:38:10 <MrN> it should be: "The transaction you created is not balanced. Where do you want to auto-balance to? [tree of accounts] ( ) OK, ( ) Revert and cancel"
17:38:43 <Vantage> jsled: Ok, I think I got it. If I accidently hit enter and the transaction is imbalanced it creates an extra row for the imbalance, how can I get rid of just that entry so I can fix the rest?
17:40:19 <Vantage> I see remove transaction splits, but will that get rid of all of them?
17:41:47 <MrN> oh, it should really be: "The transaction you created is not balanced. Where do you want to auto-balance to? [tree of accounts] ( ) OK, ( ) Revert and cancel, ( ) Don't revert and let me continue"
17:47:03 <jsled> MrN: No, selecting the account for it to balance to is the function of the register; it should just kick you back there.
17:47:48 <jsled> Vantage: yes, it will; you can't just "get rid of it", unless it's 0. If there a non-zero Split, then it needs to balance with *something*.
17:48:32 <Vantage> jsled: odd, I had added the balanced numbers, but it still said the same amount was imbalanced. I removed it and recreated it (without hitting enter until I was done) and it was fine
17:50:00 <jsled> Hmm. It's worth noting that a) you can enter basic math expressions [+-/*()] in the cells, and b) it will computing the "remaining" fraction in the blank split, at noted above.
17:53:20 <MrN> err i just tested that and didn't notice such behaviour
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17:53:46 <jsled> MrN: With 2.0?
17:53:53 <MrN> yes
17:54:11 <MrN> 2.0.1
17:54:21 <jsled> yeah ... a particular change in 2.0 made that dialog basically go away (unfortunately :( )
17:54:39 <Vantage> thanks for the help guys, seems to be working out so far. Only a few months worth of transactions to go back and update :)
17:55:10 <jsled> Vantage: heh.
17:55:51 <Vantage> jsled: actually, is there an easy way to add an opening balance of money owed to that account?
17:56:20 <jsled> Sure. Opening Balances are just transactions -- appropriately dated -- against {Equity:Opening Balances}.
17:57:07 <MrN> opening balance is a top-level account here
17:57:41 <jsled> I suppose it could be that, so long as it's of type:equity.
17:58:09 <MrN> it is :)
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18:11:19 <Vantage> jsled: so let's say I have money I owe and money I am owed from the same person, how can I connect the two?
18:13:23 <jsled> Vantage: heh. Yeah, there's two ways ... you could also have a Liabilities:<Person> account, and try to make transactions between that and the Assets:MOtM:Person account...
18:14:42 <MrN> or use the assets account directly to pay things if the other person paid for it on your behalf :)
18:16:37 <MrN> or is that stylistically bad?
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18:18:29 <Vantage> jsled: Yeah, I created the liabilities account, I'm just not sure how to connect them without manually making transactions between the two
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18:23:29 <jsled> Or, just be willing to accept that one of them will go negative.
18:23:50 <jsled> MrN: No, I do that exactly for expenses my finacee pays.
18:24:36 <MrN> heh fine
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19:53:54 <MrN> n8
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22:30:01 <jpeach> Hi everyone. I am trying to compile suspend2 into the 2.6.19 kernel and keep getting the following error message when making a debian package
22:30:02 <jpeach> MODPOST 1756 modules
22:30:03 <jpeach> WARNING: Can't handle masks in drivers/ide/pci/atiixp:FFFF05
22:30:03 <jpeach> WARNING: "try_to_freeze" [drivers/usb/atm/ueagle-atm.ko] undefined!
22:30:03 <jpeach> make[3]: *** [__modpost] Error 1
22:30:03 <jpeach> make[2]: *** [modules] Error 2
22:30:05 <jpeach> make[1]: *** [deb-pkg] Error 2
22:30:07 <jpeach> make: *** [deb-pkg] Error 2
22:31:07 <jpeach> Any ideas? I started with unpached source and it compiled no problem. Then I applied the suspend2 patch and changed nothing else. When I compiled I got the above error
22:32:03 <elb> you know this is #gnucash, right?
22:32:19 <jpeach> oh... sorry wrong room
22:32:28 <elb> good luck :-)
22:32:32 <jpeach> thanks
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22:35:24 <warlord> hehe
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23:19:42 <warlord> hiya Wilddev
23:19:46 <warlord> did you get my email?
23:20:54 <Wilddev> warlord: just reading them now
23:23:53 <warlord> okay.
23:24:03 <warlord> i'm heading to bed now. Happy New year :)
23:24:04 <warlord> TTYT.
23:24:07 *** warlord is now known as warlord-afk
23:25:21 <Wilddev> nite
23:30:31 <Wilddev> hampton: you here?
23:31:27 <hampton> yup, I'm here
23:31:49 <Wilddev> is a fix for the glib issue commited or are you still working on it?
23:32:39 <hampton> Still working on it. I got distracted this weekend making sure that all of the F::Q modules work so I can put out a new release.
23:32:49 <Wilddev> ah ok
23:33:00 <Wilddev> do you think I should hold off on 2.0.4 then?
23:33:03 <hampton> I'm also in the process of getting ready to move, so my time is kinda scattered.
23:34:27 <hampton> I think you should probably go ahead and do a 2.0.4. I'll see how quickly I can get to it, but I don't know when I'll get the glib problem fixed.
23:34:40 <Wilddev> ok I'll do that then
23:34:43 <Wilddev> thanks
23:35:01 <hampton> (I thought I had a coded solution, but then in talking to warlord about it I realized I needed to scrap the fix and start over.)
23:58:04 <Wilddev> hmm damm, make failed
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11:19:41 <jsled> @echo
11:19:41 <gncbot> jsled: Error: "echo" is not a valid command.
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11:23:20 *** andi5 sets mode: +o gncbot
11:23:27 * andi5 is happy
11:51:12 * andi5 is even happier now
11:51:35 <jsled> I'm going to bounce httpd on {!www}.gnucash.org in 7 minutes (at noon est)
11:51:45 <jsled> warlord-afk: ping; see ^^
11:58:01 <jsled> right, here we go.
12:02:29 <jsled> http://svn.gnucash.org/logs/2007-01-01.html
12:03:58 <jsled> andi5: yeah, I'm thinking of filtering those out.
12:10:49 * hampton laments that web sites don't publish interfaces for retrieving stock quotes
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13:09:01 <jsled> http://lists.gnucash.org/logs/2007-01-01.html updated.
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13:16:57 *** jsled changes topic to "Welcome! Don't meta-ask, ASK and WAIT. 2.0.3 released. FAQ: <http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ>. This is a publically-logged channel."
13:19:29 * jsled [off] tests.
13:19:44 <hampton> Was gncbot suppose to tell me that wasn't logged?
13:19:53 <jsled> hampton: no.
13:19:56 <hampton> k
13:20:18 <jsled> [off] test
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13:31:33 <andi5> jsled: so we filter out exactly ^\[off\].*$ ?
13:32:54 <hampton> :-)
13:32:57 <jsled> :)
13:33:58 <hampton> too much perl has purloined my wits ;-)
13:34:22 * jsled shrugs
13:34:40 * andi5 do not really care ;)
13:34:47 <andi5> s,do,does,
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13:37:50 <Dobrin> hello, I've just learnt about this software and I want to ask if it can do electronic filling , because I can't find anything about it in the homesite ?
13:38:29 <jsled> What do you mean by "electronic filing"?
13:38:44 <andi5> filling or filing?
13:38:46 <hampton> gnucash doesn't do taxes
13:39:05 <Dobrin> filing
13:39:33 <Dobrin> hampton , isn't it a tax software ?
13:39:59 <hampton> no, bookkeeping software. Heps you manage your finances, not file your taxes
13:40:24 <jsled> though there is support for accounting for taxes, but not preparing taxes formally.
13:41:31 <Dobrin> I understand, I was mislead then
13:41:57 <Dobrin> there is a site that recommends this as a free tax software
13:42:09 <Dobrin> along with Turbo Tax, TaxCut that aren't free
13:42:23 <Dobrin> do you have any experiences with free tax software ?
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13:43:08 <MrN> i guess tax software can't be international and thus it is less likely that a good open source program for that will exist
13:43:38 <Dobrin> I need such for USA
13:43:39 <jsled> MrN: yes and no ... I think it's more that -- in the US, anyways -- the rules are highly detailed, conflicting, and change all the time.
13:43:51 <Dobrin> Missourii, Kansas City
13:43:55 <MrN> jsled: erm yes, not different here :)
13:43:56 <jsled> So, it's just an amazing amount of effort to have correct software.
13:43:59 <andi5> then do taxes in germany....
13:44:04 <jsled> andi5: heh.
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13:45:50 <andi5> jsled: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Germany
13:46:15 <jsled> Oh. Boo.
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13:59:22 <chris> jsled: awesome job with the logging. thanks.
14:01:52 <jsled> chris: you're welcome.
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15:19:43 *** warlord-afk is now known as warlord
15:19:53 <warlord> happy new year, everyone. And jsled: nice job.
15:20:06 <jsled> happy new year, warlord.
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17:04:13 <Vantage> hi, I'm trying to find out if there's an easier way to handle this in gnucash. Currently, my gf and I split costs on certain items (rent, utils, etc). I pay the initial bill and she pays me back later. So every month or so I manually go through all the transactions that need to be split, add them up and split them. Is there any way to have gnucash keep a running total of these things while still keeping them payed in the right categories (rent,
17:05:16 <warlord> Vantage: use split transactions as you pay them.
17:05:33 <warlord> First, create an Assets:Moneys Owed to Me:Girlfriend account
17:05:39 <jsled> Vantage: http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_How_do_I_account_for_loaning.2Fbrowing_money_to.2Ffrom_a_friend.3F
17:06:10 <warlord> and then when you pay a split expense, split it between the actual expense and the money owed to you.
17:06:25 <warlord> For example, if rent is $500 and you split it 50/50, then you'd have a 3-split transaction:
17:06:34 <warlord> Assets:Checking $500
17:06:45 <warlord> A:MOtM:G $250
17:06:52 <warlord> Ex:Rent $250
17:09:06 <Vantage> ok, so let's see if I've got this straight. I'd create a new expense under rent, split it 3 ways, one would be the full payment from checking (so my checking account it accurate), then another to this new asset category, and the third would be my contribution to the rent?
17:12:27 <Vantage> is that correct?
17:12:47 <jsled> yup
17:13:56 <warlord> Yep!
17:14:12 <Vantage> jsled: ok, so I'm going to try one now. I've created the accounts (money owed and money owing) and it happens to be rent day :) So I split once and get three areas I can fill in. So I don't need to split it anymore, correct?
17:14:53 <MrN> is doing two transactions very bad?
17:14:57 <jsled> yeah ... once you get to the third split, it'll create a new, blank, 4th split at the end.
17:15:09 <jsled> MrN: eh?
17:15:18 <MrN> well i had a similar situationb
17:15:26 <MrN> but this damn autocompletion drove me crazy
17:15:28 <warlord> gotta run off.
17:15:30 *** warlord is now known as warlord-afk
17:15:32 <jsled> warlord-afk: take care.
17:15:34 <MrN> so i just created two full transactions
17:15:44 <Vantage> jsled: So the money owed to me is an expense or a rebate?
17:16:04 <warlord-afk> Vantage: enter it in from the Checking account register. It'll make much more sense.
17:16:49 <jsled> aye.
17:16:56 <jsled> (to warlord-afk's statement)
17:17:22 <jsled> The money owed to you is an Asset; if you're entering the txn from the Expense account, it'll be in the Rebate column.
17:17:39 <jsled> Perhaps more importantly, it'll be in the *other* column from the expense.
17:18:18 <Vantage> jsled:ok, so from checking then do I list the money owed to me as a deposit or a withdrawel?
17:18:25 <jsled> Actually, that might not be true....
17:19:43 <jsled> Vantage: well, if the rent payment (all $500) is in the widthdrawl column (as it would be), then all balancing transactions (the Assets:MOtM:Gf and the Expense) would be in the Deposit column.
17:20:06 <Vantage> jsled: and in the rebate column from expenses?
17:20:09 <jsled> Don't worry about the column heading too much, they can be counterintuitive. Think about it as an equation/scale balance.
17:20:15 <Vantage> jsled: I think that makes sense, so I hope I'm right :)
17:20:47 <MrN> yeah i just managed two merge the two inelegant transactions :D
17:21:33 <jsled> Vantage: yeah; if you're looking at it from the Expense account, both your expense, and the A:MOtM:GF, will be in the same column: Expense.
17:21:45 <jsled> Vantage: only the Assets:Checking will be in the Rebate column.
17:22:45 <jsled> MrN: Two transactions isn't very bad, but ISTM that splitting like that is really one transaction.
17:23:00 <jsled> MrN: Why is the autocompletion annoying?
17:23:03 <MrN> ISTM==?
17:23:12 <jsled> it seems to me
17:23:17 <MrN> jsled: it automatically adds accounts that do not exist
17:23:24 <MrN> "Ausgleichskonto-EUR" that is
17:23:24 <jsled> Hmmm?
17:23:38 <Vantage> jsled: k, I'm confused again. In checking I only have deposit or withdrawel. The expense of course is in the withdrawel column and my Expense rent is in the deposit column. Should the money owed be in the deposit column?
17:24:19 <MrN> hell what does Clearing EUR mean? and why does it automatically add it to the top of my tree?
17:24:36 <MrN> ...account tree
17:24:43 <jsled> Vantage: yes. Think of it this way: the invariant, as you mentioned, is that $500 came out of your checking account. Everything else must be in the other column, right?
17:24:59 <jsled> And, moreover, it must add up to the $500 that came out of the checking account...
17:25:12 <jsled> MrN: Would "imbalance" be a reasonable translation?
17:25:20 <MrN> i don't knwo :)
17:25:41 <MrN> anyways, i have to delete it manually because it annoys me :D
17:26:39 <Vantage> jsled: makes sense, but you were saying that under the expense:rent register that they would both be expenses? wouldn't that not balance?
17:26:40 <jsled> the AutoComplete should always fill in the last-entered state of the transaction; after you've deleted it, it shouldn't return. *Unless* that's actually the Imbalance logic, in which case you're entering imbalanced transactions, which *is* very bad.
17:27:17 <MrN> i'm incrementally making a transaction more complicated
17:27:27 <MrN> and temporarily it thus becomes imbalanced
17:28:03 <jsled> Vantage: no, it'll still balance; the registers are just views of the same set of (balanced) transactions.
17:29:05 <jsled> Vantage: Note that the "Expense" column in an expense register is really the Accounting column "Debit". So, that column would reflect a Debit to the Expense account, plus a Debit to the Asset:MOtM:GF account, against a Credit to the Assets:Checking account ... all still balanced.
17:31:15 <jsled> It's not that they're both Expenses, so much as they're both in the "Expense" column of an expense register, which isn't the same thing. Those column headings use an account-type specific "informal" label.
17:32:15 <jsled> MrN: Hmm. Sounds like you need to balance it, then. The Imbalance-<currency> accounts are created in order to maintain Double-entry integrity.
17:32:27 <Vantage> jsled: Ok, I think I get it. I'm going to try and see if it balances :)
17:32:41 <MrN> jsled: yeah but the previous time i tried, it didn't let me.
17:32:44 <MrN> this time it worked
17:32:47 <MrN> strange, eh? ;)
17:33:07 <jsled> MrN: There's a recent gnucash-user thread about this ... in 1.8, gnucash would be a bit more aggressive about prompting you for imbalanced transactions before (auto-)creating the account.
17:33:39 <jsled> MrN: Many (myself included) liked that behavior rather than the current, which is to relatively silently create the Imbalance account... even if you never want it to exist.
17:33:41 <MrN> it should actually ask me which account to auto-balance to.
17:33:59 <MrN> it should never exist anyways!
17:34:46 <jsled> Vantage: like warlord-afk said, it's much easier to reason about these things from the Assets/Checking accounts. Also (as per the other discussion :) it's *always* balanced, though a bit less so if an Imbalance account is one of the Splits.
17:35:11 <jsled> MrN: Right, it used to pop up a dialog being a bit more specific along those lines.
17:35:31 <MrN> a dialog where you can choose?
17:35:34 <jsled> MrN: And it still does .... if there's a balance on the "blank" split, things aren't really balanced,
17:35:42 <MrN> or simply a "Choose, asshole!" dialog?
17:36:32 <jsled> MrN: Well, it was a dialog saying "you're trying to leave a transaction unbalanced; you can: ( ) cancel, ( ) let gnucash balance it [jsled: via. Imbalance-CUR], ( ) balance it manually"
17:37:13 <jsled> (biab)
17:38:10 <MrN> it should be: "The transaction you created is not balanced. Where do you want to auto-balance to? [tree of accounts] ( ) OK, ( ) Revert and cancel"
17:38:43 <Vantage> jsled: Ok, I think I got it. If I accidently hit enter and the transaction is imbalanced it creates an extra row for the imbalance, how can I get rid of just that entry so I can fix the rest?
17:40:19 <Vantage> I see remove transaction splits, but will that get rid of all of them?
17:41:47 <MrN> oh, it should really be: "The transaction you created is not balanced. Where do you want to auto-balance to? [tree of accounts] ( ) OK, ( ) Revert and cancel, ( ) Don't revert and let me continue"
17:47:03 <jsled> MrN: No, selecting the account for it to balance to is the function of the register; it should just kick you back there.
17:47:48 <jsled> Vantage: yes, it will; you can't just "get rid of it", unless it's 0. If there a non-zero Split, then it needs to balance with *something*.
17:48:32 <Vantage> jsled: odd, I had added the balanced numbers, but it still said the same amount was imbalanced. I removed it and recreated it (without hitting enter until I was done) and it was fine
17:50:00 <jsled> Hmm. It's worth noting that a) you can enter basic math expressions [+-/*()] in the cells, and b) it will computing the "remaining" fraction in the blank split, at noted above.
17:53:20 <MrN> err i just tested that and didn't notice such behaviour
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17:53:46 <jsled> MrN: With 2.0?
17:53:53 <MrN> yes
17:54:11 <MrN> 2.0.1
17:54:21 <jsled> yeah ... a particular change in 2.0 made that dialog basically go away (unfortunately :( )
17:54:39 <Vantage> thanks for the help guys, seems to be working out so far. Only a few months worth of transactions to go back and update :)
17:55:10 <jsled> Vantage: heh.
17:55:51 <Vantage> jsled: actually, is there an easy way to add an opening balance of money owed to that account?
17:56:20 <jsled> Sure. Opening Balances are just transactions -- appropriately dated -- against {Equity:Opening Balances}.
17:57:07 <MrN> opening balance is a top-level account here
17:57:41 <jsled> I suppose it could be that, so long as it's of type:equity.
17:58:09 <MrN> it is :)
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18:11:19 <Vantage> jsled: so let's say I have money I owe and money I am owed from the same person, how can I connect the two?
18:13:23 <jsled> Vantage: heh. Yeah, there's two ways ... you could also have a Liabilities:<Person> account, and try to make transactions between that and the Assets:MOtM:Person account...
18:14:42 <MrN> or use the assets account directly to pay things if the other person paid for it on your behalf :)
18:16:37 <MrN> or is that stylistically bad?
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18:18:29 <Vantage> jsled: Yeah, I created the liabilities account, I'm just not sure how to connect them without manually making transactions between the two
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18:23:29 <jsled> Or, just be willing to accept that one of them will go negative.
18:23:50 <jsled> MrN: No, I do that exactly for expenses my finacee pays.
18:24:36 <MrN> heh fine
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19:53:54 <MrN> n8
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22:30:01 <jpeach> Hi everyone. I am trying to compile suspend2 into the 2.6.19 kernel and keep getting the following error message when making a debian package
22:30:02 <jpeach> MODPOST 1756 modules
22:30:03 <jpeach> WARNING: Can't handle masks in drivers/ide/pci/atiixp:FFFF05
22:30:03 <jpeach> WARNING: "try_to_freeze" [drivers/usb/atm/ueagle-atm.ko] undefined!
22:30:03 <jpeach> make[3]: *** [__modpost] Error 1
22:30:03 <jpeach> make[2]: *** [modules] Error 2
22:30:05 <jpeach> make[1]: *** [deb-pkg] Error 2
22:30:07 <jpeach> make: *** [deb-pkg] Error 2
22:31:07 <jpeach> Any ideas? I started with unpached source and it compiled no problem. Then I applied the suspend2 patch and changed nothing else. When I compiled I got the above error
22:32:03 <elb> you know this is #gnucash, right?
22:32:19 <jpeach> oh... sorry wrong room
22:32:28 <elb> good luck :-)
22:32:32 <jpeach> thanks
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22:35:24 <warlord> hehe
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23:19:42 <warlord> hiya Wilddev
23:19:46 <warlord> did you get my email?
23:20:54 <Wilddev> warlord: just reading them now
23:23:53 <warlord> okay.
23:24:03 <warlord> i'm heading to bed now. Happy New year :)
23:24:04 <warlord> TTYT.
23:24:07 *** warlord is now known as warlord-afk
23:25:21 <Wilddev> nite
23:30:31 <Wilddev> hampton: you here?
23:31:27 <hampton> yup, I'm here
23:31:49 <Wilddev> is a fix for the glib issue commited or are you still working on it?
23:32:39 <hampton> Still working on it. I got distracted this weekend making sure that all of the F::Q modules work so I can put out a new release.
23:32:49 <Wilddev> ah ok
23:33:00 <Wilddev> do you think I should hold off on 2.0.4 then?
23:33:03 <hampton> I'm also in the process of getting ready to move, so my time is kinda scattered.
23:34:27 <hampton> I think you should probably go ahead and do a 2.0.4. I'll see how quickly I can get to it, but I don't know when I'll get the glib problem fixed.
23:34:40 <Wilddev> ok I'll do that then
23:34:43 <Wilddev> thanks
23:35:01 <hampton> (I thought I had a coded solution, but then in talking to warlord about it I realized I needed to scrap the fix and start over.)
23:58:04 <Wilddev> hmm damm, make failed