2010-11-22 GnuCash IRC logs

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12:24:00 <tolland> hi
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12:25:28 <tolland> should i use a "Stock" type account to track a physically held asset like copper?
12:26:14 <warlord> We do have some "precious metal" currencies.. I.e., XAU, XAG, ...
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12:55:04 <tolland> my "price editor" is giving me a "Namespace" option, which i don't see described in the docs
12:55:07 <tolland> any idea what that is?
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13:21:33 <warlord> It's a way to collate similar stocks together.
13:21:56 <warlord> You can use it for e.g. different stock markets, or stock types, or anything else you want to use.
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14:13:27 <tolland> when i process a payment, i select a transfer account and when i click OK it adds a line to the transfer account(in this case Bank Accounts:Current Account) but I don' want it to do that, as I have already imported that transaction from my bank account OFX file, really I just wanted them linked...
14:15:19 <warlord> You can't.
14:15:30 <warlord> Process the payment first, then during import mark it as a duplicate.
14:16:02 <warlord> You cannot assign an existing transaction to the biz features.
14:29:45 <tolland> ok cheers
14:31:49 <tolland> when I post an invoice I get a message saying something like "1 or more of the entries are for accounts different from the invoice/bill currency. you will be asked for a conversion rate for each"
14:31:52 <tolland> and then nothing
14:32:02 <tolland> and it seems to post ok
14:33:42 <warlord> That seems like a bug.
14:33:58 <tolland> how to make the invoice/bill currency change? (it should all be UK GBP, except for 1 client which is not involved with this invoice)
14:34:58 <warlord> Make sure the customer's billing currency is correct.
14:35:34 <warlord> Then reset the invoice by re-selecting the customer. Edit the invoice, click on the "Edit" toolbar button, then "Select" customer, and go through the process to re-select the customer.
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15:06:18 <tolland> if the invoice had already been raised before the bank OFX statements had been imported, would gnucash have mapped the payment to the invoice correctly?
15:08:57 <warlord> 'raised'?
15:09:01 <warlord> Do you mean posted?
15:09:28 <warlord> No. The ofx importer has no knowledge of the biz features and wouldn't mark the transaction as a payment.
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15:10:34 <tolland> really , hmm
15:11:21 <tolland> what is the the importer doing with the screen and the transaction marked green, yellow and red, is it matching them to accounts?
15:13:38 <warlord> I don't recall what the colors mean.
15:13:40 <warlord> Check the docs?
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15:16:07 <helix7> tolland: IIRC, it matches to existing transactions. Green is a pretty sure match, red is probably not a match.
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15:18:19 <helix7> Double-click on the colors to see which transaction(s) it is trying to match.
15:25:51 <gjanssens> Hi all.
15:25:58 <warlord> Hey Geert!
15:26:57 <gjanssens> @warlord: can you tell me how the nightly documentation is built? I'm looking into an encoding issue since I updated the docbook stylesheet...
15:26:57 <gncbot> gjanssens: Error: "warlord:" is not a valid command.
15:27:31 <gjanssens> Well bot, I meant to talk to warlord, not you ;)
15:28:16 <warlord> LOL
15:28:23 <warlord> Um, it just runs "make"
15:28:28 <warlord> and then copies the data.
15:28:51 <warlord> However the website might be setting the wrong encoding in the HTTP response.
15:28:57 <gjanssens> Hmm, the nightly build generates files in ISO-... format, while the webserver reports it as UTF-8.
15:29:11 <gjanssens> I changed the make command yesterday to explicitly generate UTF-8 files.
15:29:37 <gjanssens> It does so on my test machine here, but I still seem to get ISO encoded files from the server.
15:30:16 <warlord> Hmm..
15:30:19 <gjanssens> So I'm not sure where the problem could be.
15:30:48 <warlord> Let me login to the server and see.
15:31:24 <gjanssens> Hang on, it seems I'm slow
15:31:40 <gjanssens> I just reloaded the a page, and it's correct now.
15:31:43 <gjanssens> Go figure...
15:31:53 <warlord> The gnucash-docs build just does: svn update ; ./autogen.sh ; ./configure --prefix=... ; make html
15:31:58 <warlord> Okay.
15:32:34 <gjanssens> Perhaps I tested yesterday just before the docs were regenerated. I'm a couple of hours ahead of the server here.
15:32:38 <gjanssens> Glad it's ok.
15:33:10 <gjanssens> BTW what's the command again to request op privs from gncbot ?
15:33:35 <gjanssens> @gncbot op
15:33:35 <gncbot> gjanssens: Error: "gncbot" is not a valid command.
15:33:47 <gjanssens> That's not it...
15:35:19 <warlord> it's @op
15:35:30 <gjanssens> @op
15:35:30 <gncbot> gjanssens: Error: You don't have the #gnucash,op capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
15:35:53 <gjanssens> @whoami
15:35:53 <gncbot> gjanssens: I don't recognize you.
15:36:24 <gjanssens> gncbot's memory is short...
15:36:59 <gjanssens> I did reinstall my system from scratch though, would that confuse gncbot ?
15:37:16 <gjanssens> Or make it forget me ?
15:42:49 <jsled> shouldn't. you either need to do an authentication with gncbot on login, or it might remember based on ip/hostmask.
15:43:54 <gjanssens> Heh, my memory seems to be short as well. I don't remember how I first got logged in. Is there some documentation somewhere ?
15:44:11 <jsled> /msg gncbot help and /msg gncbot list
15:44:28 <jsled> list to walk the command tree, and help for specific command details
15:44:52 <gjanssens> jsled: thanks, I'll look through it
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15:49:21 <warlord> jsled: Are we sure that gjanssens is in the op-list?
15:49:27 <jsled> no.
15:49:34 <jsled> I don't have any idea
15:49:59 <warlord> jsled: How do we manipulate that list?
15:50:12 <gjanssens> @op
15:50:12 *** gncbot sets mode: +o gjanssens
15:50:27 <warlord> Well, I guess you're on the list ;)
15:50:35 *** tolland is now known as zzz_tolland
15:50:36 <gjanssens> indeed ;)
15:51:23 <gjanssens> Just figured out I had to identify again. I guess that's because I'm on a dynamic internet link and my host ident changed in the meantime.
15:51:37 <warlord> probably, yes.
15:52:57 <gjanssens> Another thing regarding the documentation.
15:53:24 <gjanssens> I have restored the capability to generate pdf files from the xml sources.
15:53:42 <warlord> YAY! Is there a makefile rule to generate it?
15:53:47 <warlord> and does the PDF "look good"?
15:54:10 <gjanssens> use "make pdf", that seemed to make most sense to me :)
15:54:50 <gjanssens> As for "looking good": they are fairly good yes. There are still some visual bugs to solve, but they are mostly ok.
15:55:00 <gjanssens> I intend to tidy them up a bit more.
15:55:38 <gjanssens> You do need to have fop installed on your system to make it work (and xsltproc, but you have that already for the html docs)
15:57:06 <gjanssens> Fop also spews a list of warnings, but nothing critical.
15:57:37 <gjanssens> My idea was to add the pdfs to the gnucash website as well as an alternative viewing format.
15:57:55 <gjanssens> But I guess, I'll need your assistance, warlord.
15:58:37 <warlord> Yeah, I'm looking at fop now.
15:59:01 <warlord> I presume I only need fop, not fop-javadoc
15:59:07 <gjanssens> Correct
15:59:25 <warlord> Okay, installing fop now.
16:01:59 <warlord> Now what?
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16:03:09 <gjanssens> ?
16:03:43 <gjanssens> I presume you have gnucash-docs/trunk checked out and up to date ?
16:03:47 <gjanssens> Then simply run make pdf
16:04:23 <gjanssens> either in the root directory to generate a pdf for all documents or in one particular directory to generate it for only one document
16:04:40 <warlord> Okay, and where does that PDF get put?
16:04:47 <gjanssens> That should be preceded by a ./autogen.sh and ./configure obviously
16:05:04 <gjanssens> It's put in the target directory
16:05:15 <gjanssens> Without a prefix, that's next to the source xml files
16:05:37 <warlord> Right now I have a script that does all this; I changed the "make html" to "make html pdf"
16:05:50 <gjanssens> Ok
16:06:02 <warlord> But now I need to copy the results out..
16:06:22 <gjanssens> How did you do that for html ?
16:06:35 <gjanssens> make install isn't implemented for pdfs
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16:07:25 <warlord> I dont use make install, I just tar out.
16:07:50 <gjanssens> Ok
16:07:50 <warlord> I do: tar -cf - guide/{C,de_DE,it_IT,ja_JP}/gnucash-guide help/{C,de_DE,it_IT}/gnucash-help | ( cd $destdir ; tar -xf - )
16:08:06 <gjanssens> change that to
16:09:00 <gjanssens> tar -cf - guide/{C,de_DE,it_IT,ja_JP}/gnucash-guide{,.pdf} help/{C,de_DE,it_IT}/gnucash-help{,.pdf} | ( cd $destdir ; tar -xf - )
16:09:05 <gjanssens> and you should be fine
16:09:22 <gjanssens> From there I can pick it up for the website
16:10:23 <warlord> okay. Done.
16:10:27 <warlord> It'll happen tomorrow.
16:10:40 <warlord> (in about 12 hours it should file)
16:10:40 <gjanssens> Great. I'll check tomorrow.
16:10:42 <warlord> *fire*
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16:12:11 <warlord> OKay, script copied into place.
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16:21:22 <gjanssens> One last question for tonight: is there a default gnucash book to use when taking screenshots for the documentation ?
16:22:40 <warlord> No. I wish there were.
16:22:48 <warlord> People are always asking for a "test" file.
16:22:56 <warlord> But nobody has ever created/donated one.
16:25:06 <gjanssens> Ok, thanks. For now I will then just use one of my test files. The contents in my screenshots may not be fully consistent with the other screenshots, but that can be improved upon later.
16:25:49 <warlord> You could ask on -devel of the people working on the docs?
16:26:07 <gjanssens> The difficulty with a global test file obviously is the fact that if I create a test file it would be biased towards European or even Belgian accounting.
16:26:13 <gjanssens> And the same would go for others.
16:26:28 <gjanssens> I'll post on devel to get some input on this tomorrow.
16:26:45 <gjanssens> Now it's time to go to bed
16:26:49 <gjanssens> See you all !
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16:29:30 <blathijs> Hmm, missed gjanssens...
16:29:37 <warlord> @tell gjanssens Perhaps we need different files for each language in the docs.
16:29:37 <gncbot> warlord: The operation succeeded.
17:02:36 <tolland> ive added some obvious accounts, and the UK VAT accounts tree and I now have a "Bank Accounts:Current Accounts" and an "Assets:Current Assets:Checking Account" it looks like the standard "business accounts" added the latter and the UK vat accounts the former
17:03:19 <tolland> does anything in the reporting or other druid/wizard stuff rely on having a bank account under the "Asset" parent account, or can I do away with the checking account?
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17:06:45 <warlord> The reports should work fine, but you'd probably be better off having a single top-level Assets account.
17:20:11 <tolland> ok, well ill see how it pans out im just testing for the moment
17:20:13 <tolland> cheers
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18:29:33 <tolland> if import 2 sets of OFX files for the current account and credit card accounts, what is the recommended way to link corresponding transfers? (I dont really want to manually delete one of the transactions as it would get automatically re-imported if i run the import again)
18:30:23 <tolland> if I create a transfers account, and have them both debit/credit it to match?
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19:31:27 <dibson> hi all- I'm trying out the budgeting feature for the first time and I'm a bit confused
19:31:33 <dibson> anyone have a minute to help me out with using it?
19:34:27 <Plouj> I want to keep track of what stores I'm spending my money in, but the income/expense reports show that money from my checking account is going to the visa liability account. This makes sense since I'm paying off the visa bill, but not very useful. Should I delete the paying off transactions and send money directly from checking to stores?
19:37:39 <dibson> Plouj: The Visa payments should have two accounts associated with it: 1- your checking account, and 2- the expense account that the money is tracked as going towards (a store in this case?)
19:38:16 <Plouj> I'm not sure how to associate multiple accounts with a payment
19:38:38 <Plouj> by payment you mean a transaction?
19:38:38 <dibson> k, let me think or a sec...
19:38:44 <dibson> right
19:39:02 <dibson> well...
19:39:03 <dibson> ok
19:39:16 <dibson> so when you add a transaction to your visa liability account
19:39:41 <dibson> that is when you're linking the charge to the expense account
19:40:14 <dibson> and that's where you are tracking the store expenses
19:40:16 <Plouj> checking -> liabilities:visa is just one big lump sum, while liabilities:visa -> storeXXX is a bunch of small transactions per store
19:40:24 <dibson> right
19:41:04 <dibson> "checking -> liabilities:visa" can only signify that money went to visa
19:41:36 <Plouj> yeah
19:41:57 <Plouj> so I think the only way to achive a better report is to remove that lump sum payment and just do checking -> storeXXX
19:42:23 <Plouj> unless I can make gnucash think that liabilities:visa is some sort of a "pass-through" account
19:42:26 <dibson> that would work, but it would give a confusing view of your checking account.
19:42:32 <jsled> uh, no.
19:42:42 <dibson> well, that's what liabilities:visa is
19:42:48 <jsled> liabilities -> expenses is as relevant as checking -> expenses
19:42:55 <Plouj> maybe a liabilities account isn't even the right type for transactions to stores in terms of accounting
19:43:10 <Plouj> maybe checking->liabilities:visa should only be used for tracking interest payments
19:43:25 <dibson> jsled: maybe you could explain better? i've only been using gnc for a few months.
19:43:27 <jsled> no, it's perfectly fine to use a credit card for expenses, and it is a liability account.
19:43:51 * jsled loads up old datafile to try income/expense report ot see what Plouj's seeing
19:44:10 <jsled> Plouj: which report, exactly?
19:44:13 <dibson> yes, it sounds like a report setting should be different
19:44:36 <Plouj> jsled: hang on
19:44:50 * Plouj loads laptop
19:46:52 * Plouj loads gnucash
19:47:41 <Plouj> jsled: cashflow report
19:48:02 <Plouj> jsled: the one that lists individual expense accounts
19:48:30 <Plouj> in the money out section I see: Liabilities:Credit Card:Visda
19:49:41 <jsled> well, that's what a cash-flow report is.
19:49:54 <jsled> maybe you really want the expense barchart/piechart, if you just want to look at expenses?
19:51:01 <Plouj> oh
19:51:35 <Plouj> I just realized that all expense:* accounts should be used for tracking money that I actually spend :)
19:51:38 <Plouj> no more, no less
19:52:04 <Plouj> jsled: that might have worked had I properly used the expense accounts :/
19:52:11 <Plouj> I thought gnucash could do magic
19:55:43 <Plouj> ok, thanks
19:55:49 * dibson is reading http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Budgets
19:56:09 <dibson> sounds like this has been a difficult feature
20:02:13 <cortana> Plouj: check out 'income statement' too.
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21:13:40 <warlord> tolland: OFX is not good at mapping inter-asset transactions
21:14:01 <warlord> So no, there's not a good way to handle it, except manually marking it a dup every time.
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